Situation:
Me - College grad, born and raised in America, currently have a good job (but boring), ready to move to a new home in the near future, lived in Korea for two years for fun

Fiance - 2 years of university in Korea, forced by parents to stop education and move to America a year ago, speaks a little English, doesn't know what to do about her future in the US

So now...we are thinking which country is the best to live in. Of course, I have a comfortable life in America. I got my education, job, and a steady future. But for her, it's different. She feels a little hopeless, but I can support us. But I can't support us and pay for her education in the US. Plus the fact that she has to spend a LOT of time learning English before getting to university. But again, we can be okay with my paycheck alone. If we were to move to Korea, she'd be more comfortable and set. I could get a fun, decent job (English teacher) and we can be comfortable there, too.

So what are the pros and cons of us living in America vs Korea?

Would really love to have advice from people who have lived in both countries for an extended period of time.

Honestly, living in Korea might seem life fun for a couple years,
but what about when you have kids?

I've lived in Korea for five years and various parts of North America before that. For me it would be a no-brainer: Korea, especially if I married a Korean. But then Korea just seems to suit me a lot better. I'm not quite sure why - I still suck at the language, am not into K-pop culture, and don't care for half the food (though the Korean food I like I really like - sorry to say that doesn't include most kinds of salgugsu). I guess it largely comes down to having a job I like that allows me to take many interesting holidays.

I've known a lot of guys in your situation, mostly white but some gyopo, too. One of my Canadian friends has been living with his Korean wife in Canada for the past four years even though she's been unemployed the whole time. I don't know how she doesn't go crazy. They're hesitant to have kids because he carries genes that have a heretitary disease, and I can't see how she could stand the prospect of being a stay-at-home, childless housewife for the rest of her life. I don't see why on earth they don't just come live in Korea where they could make a fortune teaching private students together. She at least speaks fluent if heavily accented English.

The guys I've known who've married Koreans and stayed in Korea have generally had a lot less stress. The one's who've taken brides to western countries have often said it's like being with a fish out of water. You have to teach her everything from driving to eating with your mouth shut. In Korea it might be the other way round sometimes if you're not Korean, but if you are you can often enjoy the best of both worlds. I know two very westernised gyopo who married Koreans and stayed here and they seem to enjoy all the benefits of being both a western and Korean businessman and university lecturer respectively.

But - and there's always a 'but' - here's the kicker: your kids' education. What do you do about this if you want them to have options open to go to university in the west and not turn into Confucian drones trained to memorise whatever seonsaengnim tells them? International schools can cost a fortune and are often just as corrupt and even more mercenary than Koran schools. Plus they often fail to attract experienced teachers who know what they’re doing. Educating one’s kids has been a dilemma for every foreigner I know married to a Korean, and one of the reason why many make plans to leave around the time their kids turn five or six.

About my kid's education. I was thinking I might have a baby in 4 years. Raise him/her with a complete English environment at home so they grow up bilingual until high school, at which time, we may send him/her to school in America. That is, even if we have a kid.

Yeah...it's going to be a really tough decision. I won't have to make it for another a year. But I want to get as much opinion as possible.

But it's not like my fiance is completely lost in America. She was working full time for awhile, but stopped to concentrate on studying English. She has her own car and everything. But because of money and the language, finishing her education in America would be really tough... And she dreams of something more than working at a Korean restaurant/shop/office for the rest of her life.

If you have a kid who's ready to start elementary school in about 10 years... well, it's hard to say what the state of public education will be like by 2019. Some aspects of Korean education seem so cutting-edge and others seem so stuck in the 1950s. Most of my foreign friends work or have worked in education here and it's funny how many of them say 'I would never send my kids to school here'. Keeping a kid up to par with English - especially reading and writing skills - up to high school might be more difficult than you think, to.

But if it's not going to be an issue for you for some time to come I'd say absolutely come over here. If you have American citizenship and a degree from an American uni *and* you speak Korean there will always be at least a half-decent job for you over here. I doubt you could say that about many parts of America.

I think when you compare how much more Korea accommodates English speakers/Westerners than the US accommodates Non-English speakers/Asians (especially Asians), Korea wins out as far as personal comfort. You would be happier in Korea than she would be in the US.... which in her case she sounds unhappy in the US. Though I hear Korea seem hostile to Korean-Americans who aren't too well adapted to Korean culture, and appear less accepted than Caucasians... so unless you're well adept to Korean culture, you may be in for a bumpy ride with integrating yourself.

But then your fiance doesn't even have a set and stable career in either country, whereas you have one in the US. In this sense, it makes more financial sense to stay in the US. But your ability to get a fun job as an English teacher helps offset the financial risk.

Personally I think the two of you would be better off in Korea.

Also, your child would be better off in a Korean school than an American school. Not so much from the quality of the education, but because of a more accepting environment. In the US, it's acceptable for black or white people to ostracize of Asians... yet the moment a white person makes a black joke, there's a media frenzy. Racism towards Asians is no big deal in America. High school children can be so cruel, especially for Asians being the "step-on" minority. This can cause children to have self-esteem issues or adjustment issues (rebelliousness; more so than regular teenage rebelliousness). I was fortunate to go to school in Hawaii, where Asians are the majority so I never had to face that. That kind of hostile environment can have the greatest negative impact on a child's education. Whereas in Korea, your child would be an integrated Korean.... while that doesn't take away the worries of being faddish, geeky, or whatever, racism is still one less thing for you and your child to have to worry about growing up.

I know I may seem cold or even a little like a jerk in some of the other threads... but I think this thread is really sweet and very much worthwhile for the 20+ forums. <3

Thanks for all the helpful info and opinions. To be more clear, I'm not Korean, but Asian-American. And I've lived in Korea for two years before, where I adapted myself pretty well to Korea (getting $4 순두부 delivered to my officetel in the mornings, drinking 3000 won soju and then 벼다귀 해장국 to end the night, know the difference between the green and white trash bags, etc.)

But another issue is that if I move to Korea and become an English teacher, after 10 years, I'll still be an English teacher. Although the money is really nice. Whereas in America, even though I'm a cubicle b!tch now, I have room for advancement for a bigger and better future.

If you plan on living in Korea, I would take the time to become fluent in Korean (but i'm kind of assuming that you speak fluent korean considering your wife is korean and doesn't really speak english...). I think it'll help open up a lot of doors for you so you won't be "just an english teacher".

A lot of the times I meet people from korea and they'll all pretty much tell me the same thing. "It's nice to go to Korea for vacation to have fun but not to live".

I've seen a lot of korean couples come to the US speaking no english at all and they are still able to work. How? Well, in koreatown, you don't even really need english to get around. You can still get a job here since pretty much everyone speaks korean all the time anyways. Lol. English is a big plus though.

What if they weren't in Los Angeles but say...somewhere in the midwest? I doubt they can find a job then...

Exactly why I said they were able to find jobs in koreatown.......

aww i think it's really sweet of you to think that. and very selfless.

however, i think you should definitely stay in the US. i think she'll get adjusted. your life isn't going to improve too much if you go to korea, however, there's a lot of room for growth in the US especially since you alraedy have your career set.
chances are, you will have a child and she'll be a stay at home mother anyways. her career isn't going anywhere if she's in the US and korea, and yours won't either if you go to korea.

if you spoke korean, that would be a different story. but if you only plan to teach english, unless that's the kind of job you want your whole life, i think staying in the US is the overall best decision. if you guys move to LA, she'll also be with a lot of koreans too. and your child will have an overall better education and have have more opportunities. free schooling too.

plus, if she really doesn't like the US, you two can always move to korea later, however, moving to korea and back, is a lot more difficult.

in general, career is more important to you than it is to her. i think she will adapt to the US lifestyle. there are many immigrants who learn to adapt. if she loves you, she'll do it for you too, just like you would do it for her.

good luck


btw, altho i've never lived in korea, i did come to college in the US and i grew up in hong kong sooo i think it's kinda comparable.

Um, are you familiar with the Korean school system? To be sure, it's not all bad and definitely has it's pluses - I don't have to worry whether any of my students are into drugs, serious violence is very rare, most of them make very close friendships, and even with the very worst students it's usually just a matter of them being very lazy or obnoxious. However, if you want to go to university, you could be in for a very miserable and depressing adolescence. Some days even my really good students are just too tired to do much. On top of this, students often emerge from school with very little critical thinking or research skills for all the time they spend there.

As for racism, if the OP is Asian but not Korean, this could actually be a much bigger problem for his kid than in many parts of the States, especially if he's SE Asian. Over the past year tens of thousands of Vietnamese and Filipina brides have come to Korea. Their children are now starting to enter the public school system, and many of them are having a hell of a time. On the other hand, at my first job in Korea there was a little boy who had a Chinese father, and he seemed to get on really well with the other kids, so maybe it's hard to say.

yah to further expand on this, i think the breadth of education the US offers is a lot wider, in hk, and i assume other parts of asia and korea, the education is rather limited. it's just books and studying, there's barely extra curricular activities and it is more limiting for the child. even tho i went to an international school, i felt like my experience could've been more complete if there were more extra curricular activities. and local schools are often stressful. university outlook are often grim unless they're super smart. there's like no second chances whereas in the US, if you mess up, you go to a CC and transfer.

also i'm not sure about drugs and stuff. in a big city, it's easier to get into drugs and partying too.

also it really does depend on whcih part of the country you are in. i would assume that you might as well move to LA or somewhere where there's a lot of koreans. racism isn't that big of a deal in those areas, there are hs here that has a lot of asians!

I can hardly speak Korean at all. Our conversation is 90% English 10% Korean. I've lived in Korea for two years and my fiance has lived there for basically her whole life and we both think it will be okay if we lived there. But a HUGE reason for that is because I can earn 250 만원 a month working 25 hours a week while a regular office job for a Korean would be 150만원 a month 60+ hours a week.



In Korea, she can have a real career after finishing college. But here, the language is a huge obstacle for her finding the career she can be proud of.


Well, it's not just about her being in a comfortable environment. It's that she has dreams of doing something more than working at a low end job. I think if she had grown up working and struggling in a bad place with no education, she'd be fine in America. But she was educated, worked hard in school, and had her future set after college. So to turn that around and live the way she's living in America...it's kind of tough mentally.

But..I think there are things she could do in America that she can be happy with without going to university. And our future would be much more stable with more opportunities in America. Hmm...

Thanks for all the opinions and ideas. I'm taking it all in slowly to decide for the best future for us.

Mate, I sure hope you mean 십만완 or else you're going to be eating a lot of ramyeon and living in a tent.


Edit: Oh wait, you said week, not month. Though that's still not a hell of a lot.

Oops...I mean 250만원.

I still haven't trained myself to think in 10,000s for larger numbers. But I need to when discussing large sums with Koreans because they just can't think in 1,000s beyond 9,000.

"You extra time ratuh will be tree hundred tousand won a hour" - What the hell? Could I quit my regular hours then and just teach extra-time classes, then?

"Da costah ob his new car is almost tree million won" - Holy mini cooper, how can you get a new car so cheap???

I guess it wouldn't be such a problem if W1,000 didn't equal about 80 cents.

if she hasn't finished her education, why not go to korea while she finishes her degree.
that would probably give you 2-4years of korean living.

as someone who's living in japan, i would say that it's a nice place short-term, but long term is not something i'd do.
it'll be especially hard if you don't speak a lot of korean.

if you're looking at what to do from now on, i would suggest that after she gets her degree, you make the US the permanent home, but take frequent trips to korea.
if i had the money to go home every year for a month or a few weeks, i would feel a lot better about staying here long term.
either way, if you stay in korea or the US long term, one of you guys is going to need to take trips back home or out of the country to refresh.

well
i mean it comes down to
either you giving up your career or her giving up her career.
i think usually it's the girl who gives up her career. i mean, unless she's gonna be super successful in korea. but i mean, if her family is urging her to quit college...and it's still harder for women to climb up corporate ladder in asia too.

i mean, do you really want to be teaching english your whole life? you went to college and FINISHED. if anything, she could teach korean or something, or some sort of musical instrument (if she plays) in LA. i am sure there are opportunities for her in the US. i mean, i think it comes down to how career oriented she is too.

I would live in Korea for a few years and then move back when ready to have kids

Depends..do you consider teaching ESL a career?

Well, I've taught English for three years. I can see myself doing it. But there's a world of difference between being an esl teacher in Korea vs in America. In America, I'd have a pay scale, good 401k, benefits, retirement, etc.

if you do decide to live in korea.. the more korean you know, the richer your experience will be.. so i really recommend knowing at least a bit before you come this place is awesome when you're young.. but living here past your 40s.. i dunno.. =/

I am not Korean, however I work with a lot of immigrants, recent and old arrivals in the US. Although it is very difficult to adapt, the majority seem to feel that it is worthwhile because of the opportunities available for themselves and their children. A number of them start off in ethnic communities such as Koreatown, Chinatown and Little Italy. However, as they become more adept at speaking English they move into the general society and maintain contact with the people they knew from the ethnic communities. This is especially true of the younger generation. It's harder if you only live in an ethnic community because nothing changes and there isn't a need for you to adapt. I go to an old RC Church in what was a predominately Italian (I'm not Italian) neighborhood. There are older people there who never left the neighborhood and speak very little English because they shop, visit each other and do everything in the neighborhood. When the Church started having more English masses, the older people had a very hard time adapting and limited themselves only going to mass on certain days at certain times.

As for your fiance, she seems like an intelligent woman and I wouldn't want to see her limited like that. I think that she is probably feeling isolated because of the language barrier. You say that you and she speak 90% english. This is a good start. She may feel uncomfortable because of her accent, but once she gets past that she would do fine. Since you're already established with a possibility for advancement, I'd recommend giving the US a chance. There are a lot of grants out there for immigrants and those with little or no income. It just requires a little research.

As for the racism or discrimination, this really shouldn't be your major deciding factor. Unfortunately, there are people in both countries who can't see past skin colors, religion or ethnic groups.

Good luck to both of you and sorry for rambling on so long.

Moving will be a huge change. No energy to keep moving back and forth between the states and Korea and having to start looking for a new job each time. When we make the decision, it'll be for good. Or at least for the long run: 10+ years.

I'm starting to side with Korea now. I have a decent job in America, but I'd be making roughly the same amount of money in Korea for far less hours, which I could use to tutor. Also, Korea would be a far better life for my fiance. The language is a huge roadblock right in the middle of her university career. It's really...stressful and...everything.

Come back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the same dude I met in the winter at that meet in like, Ho Bar, right??

-ginger

Just my opinions.

[Pros]
- So many delicious foods!
- Great place to shop at! So many pretty clothes and so many nice clothes for guys as well!
- Lots of Korean singers/actress/actors/comedians you can bump into!
- Better opportunity jobs for people who can speak both Korean and English fluently.
- Better transportation, easy to get around without cars.

[Cons]
- Too many dramas will show up like for instance constant gossip everywhere you go about your life, like paparazzi.
- You have to dress nice and casual most of the time, or lots of people will think you are very weird person.
- Remember, Most of the South Koreans are Republican. They think the same way like America's Republican.


Why do you think her parents ended her education in Korea? Because they probably wanted their daughter to go to America and learn English. If you didn't know, it's harder for Koreans to get in America these days if you didn't know that. The immigrants part became strict from what I heard? Yeah yeah yeah it could be very easier for your girlfriend if she was in Korea because she is fluent with Korean. But really? So they fail at something, you are just going to bring them back? Did you guys even try to work it out? I know money is a big issue for you both, and your job is boring. But do it for your girlfriend's parent. If you want to give a good impression for her parents, maybe you should help her learn a lot of English by spending time with her. You don't need to make her go to English Classes to learn English, you can always teach her and make sure she watches a lot of American movies and introduce her to American friends who speak only English. Make sure she doesn't watch much of Korean TV Dramas or Korean TV Shows. Make her interest in American stuff, it will help her learn English better. Trust me.

Not many of which get served at workplace cafeterias. You should have seen yesterday at my school cafeteria. Lunch was bad enough, but dinner consisted of huge squid tenticles in hot sauce plus grass pancakes with yet more squid in them along with spicy cabbage soup. I stared at it for a few seconds and then made a bee-line for Paris Baguette.

^ that sounds wayy better than japanese school lunches

Yes, Ginger! Your boyfriend and I were rocking the ponytail look. 1500 won jack and coke at that cat bar!!!

^
^
grass pancakes are da bomb. lol

i just don't like the school lunch when they have fish... or this other thing we had a couple of days ago that looked like tiny squid babies. looked like something alien and the eyeballs were tiny little crunchy things. yuck.