[mkshftjnky]

I can think of a certain doctor, principal, and professor I know who might beg to differ with you.

Also, 'seonsaengnim' can apply to anyone from a kindergarten monitor to a part-time piano teacher to a head chef, so it doesn't necessarily carry respectability of the 'highest' order.

i suppose in the social viewpoint in my context that's how they see it. i know i'm stereotyping and also purely guessing if this is even true, but wouldn't people go to male doctors than female doctors?

it's sexist i know but i'm associating it with the sociological standpoint of what a man's job should be and a woman's.

and yes i know all the sexist hoo ha and what's fact and fiction, case by case stuff lol but in their mind that is kind of what they subconsciously believe is all i'm saying.

gee. i didn't mean to rub ya.

[Yubumsuk]

i suppose in the social viewpoint in my context that's how they see it. i know i'm stereotyping and also purely guessing if this is even true, but wouldn't people go to male doctors than female doctors?

it's sexist i know but i'm associating it with the sociological standpoint of what a man's job should be and a woman's.

and yes i know all the sexist hoo ha and what's fact and fiction, case by case stuff lol but in their mind that is kind of what they subconsciously believe is all i'm saying.

gee. i didn't mean to rub ya.

Oh no offense...

As for sexism, yes it exists, but there are heaps of female medical and educational professionals these days, so it's not seen as any big deal. Plus I'm sure some women prefer female doctors for various reasons.

Also, age still trumps sex. At school middle-age, tenured female teachers can tell a 25-year-old male newbie teacher what to do and he'd better damn well do it if he wants his contract extended. My combined middle & high school has two principals, a male and female. The female is about 20 years older than the male and from the school's founder's family, and there's absolutely no question that she's top dog and the male had better cave in to her should any problems arise.

[theannebonny]

If you're applying to SMOE make sure you have a back-up plan. In August 100 teachers got shafted at the last minute (many after they had already arranged flights) as SMOE suddenly decided to cut their numbers with no notice. For many people months of planning went up in smoke. If you apply for SMOE you might be wise also to contact a few recruiters who don't deal with SMOE to ask them about other options so you have other possibilities in the event of another SMOE snafu.

Yeah, I had heard about that too. I'm keeping my options open. SMOE is my first choice but if that doesn't work out then hopefully one of the recruiters I'm working with can find me something else.

[mkshftjnky]

Oh no offense...

As for sexism, yes it exists, but there are heaps of female medical and educational professionals these days, so it's not seen as any big deal. Plus I'm sure some women prefer female doctors for various reasons.

Also, age still trumps sex. At school middle-age, tenured female teachers can tell a 25-year-old male newbie teacher what to do and he'd better damn well do it if he wants his contract extended. My combined middle & high school has two principals, a male and female. The female is about 20 years older than the male and from the school's founder's family, and there's absolutely no question that she's top dog and the male had better cave in to her should any problems arise.

huh. i never saw it like that.

damnit i'm a twinkie. lol thought i understood the culture enough but i suppose i don't. ah well. suppose i should go back to foreigner mode instead of being disguised as korean korean.

[Yubumsuk]

huh. i never saw it like that.

damnit i'm a twinkie. lol thought i understood the culture enough but i suppose i don't. ah well. suppose i should go back to foreigner mode instead of being disguised as korean korean.

The longer I stay in Korea the more convinced I become that I'll never know the half of Korean culture. I doubt there's even a Korean who really truly understands it.

[G4nismo]

I'm still an undergrad (senior) scheduled to graduate this december and have this whole teaching english in korea thing as my backup plan if i don't get a decent full-time job after graduation.


my biggest dilemma is choosing which employer to go with.

Education Adventure

Korjob Canada Recruiting

Travel and Teach

Joy Recruiting

Knowledge Source

Talk

I'm kinda leaning towards the private institutions like Joy recruiting and travel and teach for example b/c of the higher pay. I have read a bit about Talk from what Yubumsuk posted but what is the main difference b/t Talk and other institutions besides Talk being gov't related and the lower pay (about 1.5 mill won/month if i recall correctly)? Why should i choose them over the others is what i'm asking. It seems like all these institutions have almost the same job descriptions/contract, benefits, under ceteris paribus. That is why I was leaning towards the ones with the higher pay. What other important factors should I consider?

I also heard acquiring your visa and some aspects of the application can be a lengthy process. Should I start applying to places now or wait till I graduate? Should I apply to multiple institutions just in case one doesn't accept me or do these places generally have a high rate of acceptance (assuming you meet all the requirements & sound enthusiastic)?

[Yubumsuk]

I'm still an undergrad (senior) scheduled to graduate this december and have this whole teaching english in korea thing as my backup plan if i don't get a decent full-time job after graduation.


my biggest dilemma is choosing which employer to go with.

Education Adventure

Korjob Canada Recruiting

Travel and Teach

Joy Recruiting

Knowledge Source

Talk

I'm kinda leaning towards the private institutions like Joy recruiting and travel and teach for example b/c of the higher pay. I have read a bit about Talk from what Yubumsuk posted but what is the main difference b/t Talk and other institutions besides Talk being gov't related and the lower pay (about 1.5 mill won/month if i recall correctly)? Why should i choose them over the others is what i'm asking. It seems like all these institutions have almost the same job descriptions/contract, benefits, under ceteris paribus. That is why I was leaning towards the ones with the higher pay. What other important factors should I consider?

I also heard acquiring your visa and some aspects of the application can be a lengthy process. Should I start applying to places now or wait till I graduate? Should I apply to multiple institutions just in case one doesn't accept me or do these places generally have a high rate of acceptance (assuming you meet all the requirements & sound enthusiastic)?

TaLK pays much less, though from the 'scholars' I've met it does sound much easier than most jobs. My paycheque this month may start with a 3 but today will be another 8AM to 10PMer for me.

What recruiting agency you go with probably won't matter as much as you seem to think. Some might work with academies that tend to pay better but ultimately they're about getting a commission for placing you somewhere and none of them can make sure you end up at a good job. It's much better to try to research the specific institutions with which they deal.

The visa process can take a while or happen very quickly. Make sure you have all the necessary documents you need within three months of the application process: hard copy of your degree and / or notarised copy, uni transcripts, police criminal records check, and medical.

[G4nismo]

TaLK pays much less, though from the 'scholars' I've met it does sound much easier than most jobs. My paycheque this month may start with a 3 but today will be another 8AM to 10PMer for me.

What recruiting agency you go with probably won't matter as much as you seem to think. Some might work with academies that tend to pay better but ultimately they're about getting a commission for placing you somewhere and none of them can make sure you end up at a good job. It's much better to try to research the specific institutions with which they deal.

The visa process can take a while or happen very quickly. Make sure you have all the necessary documents you need within three months of the application process: hard copy of your degree and / or notarised copy, uni transcripts, police criminal records check, and medical.

Appreciate your response. I have noticed at Talk you do work less hours, hence the less pay i guess. I'd rather make my time worthwhile and work/earn much as possible.

i received an email from Korjob them stating:
"These positions are with the EPIK program and include all areas of Korea both urban and rural, but do not include the city of Seoul. Last September the city of Seoul cancelled the contracts for over 100 ESL teachers who had already been processed and were readyto leave for Korea. This was due to a lack of organisation on the part of the school board. Therefore, this year we have decided to only work with Epik, as they have been trustworhty and secure for many years now."

What is your opinion on EPIK? Are they like the most biggest, popular program or something?

I would much prefer teaching in an urban area (i'm a big city guy) but my knowledge is limited to the cities in Korea (i will research them later).

These are the POE positions for 2010. I guess these are the cities i'm able to work in? what do those #'s beside the cities mean? Do you have any personal experience with any of the cities listed below? Any recommendations for my preference?

Busan-250
http://english.busan.go.kr/
Daegu
http://english.daegu.go.kr/
Incheon-30
http://new.incheon.go.kr/inpia_en/servlet/main
Gwangju-20
http://eng.gjcity.net/index.jsp
Daejeon-60
http://www.daejeon.go.kr/english/index.jsp
Ulsan-1
http://english.ulsan.go.kr/
Gangwon-50
http://eng.gwd.go.kr/main.html
Chungbuk-50
http://www.cb21.net/english/
Jeonbuk-5
http://www.provin.jeonbuk.kr/02en/index.js...=&username=
Gyeongbuk-160
http://www.gyeongbuk.go.kr/eng/main/main.jsp
Gyeongnam-10
http://english.gsnd.net/default.jsp
Gyeonggi-20
http://english.gg.go.kr/
Jeju-17
http://english.jeju.go.kr/

[Yubumsuk]

Appreciate your response. I have noticed at Talk you do work less hours, hence the less pay i guess. I'd rather make my time worthwhile and work/earn much as possible.

i received an email from Korjob them stating:
"These positions are with the EPIK program and include all areas of Korea both urban and rural, but do not include the city of Seoul. Last September the city of Seoul cancelled the contracts for over 100 ESL teachers who had already been processed and were readyto leave for Korea. This was due to a lack of organisation on the part of the school board. Therefore, this year we have decided to only work with Epik, as they have been trustworhty and secure for many years now."

What is your opinion on EPIK? Are they like the most biggest, popular program or something?

I would much prefer teaching in an urban area (i'm a big city guy) but my knowledge is limited to the cities in Korea (i will research them later).

These are the POE positions for 2010. I guess these are the cities i'm able to work in? what do those #'s beside the cities mean? Do you have any personal experience with any of the cities listed below? Any recommendations for my preference?

Busan-250
http://english.busan.go.kr/
Daegu
http://english.daegu.go.kr/
Incheon-30
http://new.incheon.go.kr/inpia_en/servlet/main
Gwangju-20
http://eng.gjcity.net/index.jsp
Daejeon-60
http://www.daejeon.go.kr/english/index.jsp
Ulsan-1
http://english.ulsan.go.kr/
Gangwon-50
http://eng.gwd.go.kr/main.html
Chungbuk-50
http://www.cb21.net/english/
Jeonbuk-5
http://www.gyeongbuk.go.kr/eng/main/main.jsp
Gyeongnam-10
http://english.gsnd.net/default.jsp
Gyeonggi-20
http://english.gg.go.kr/
Jeju-17
http://english.jeju.go.kr/

Oh gosh - I just finished writing a 10-page paper about EPIK this morning. EPIK is, in a nutshell, a crapshoot. You might end up with a great public school job or a hellish one. You can request an area and level (elementary, middle, or high) but they could place you anywhere working at any kind of school or numerous schools. But it will be at a regular public school with regular school hours You could find yourself out in the countryside teaching ABCs to a class of ten 1st-graders, or put in front of a class of 45 rowdy middle schoolers and told nothing beyond 'You teachie good'. Or you could end up at a wonderful school but one where there's no end of work to do, like mine (I'm kind of under EPIK but wasn't really hired by them and my contract is with my principal, not them).

The numbers refer to how many teaching positions are available in each area. The recruiter is right about SMOE screwing over 100 applicants last year, but that doesn't mean you can't necessarily get a good job in SMOE.

[kennesu]

Some of those are big cities but I'd aim for Seoul or as close to Seoul as possible. I mean Busan is near the ocean and it has its own subway system but... I'd rather be in Seoul. Incheon and Gyeonggi would be closest. The rest are either really far away or I'm not familiar with them.

[G4nismo]

Oh gosh - I just finished writing a 10-page paper about EPIK this morning. EPIK is, in a nutshell, a crapshoot. You might end up with a great public school job or a hellish one. You can request an area and level (elementary, middle, or high) but they could place you anywhere working at any kind of school or numerous schools. But it will be at a regular public school with regular school hours You could find yourself out in the countryside teaching ABCs to a class of ten 1st-graders, or put in front of a class of 45 rowdy middle schoolers and told nothing beyond 'You teachie good'. Or you could end up at a wonderful school but one where there's no end of work to do, like mine (I'm kind of under EPIK but wasn't really hired by them and my contract is with my principal, not them).

The numbers refer to how many teaching positions are available in each area. The recruiter is right about SMOE screwing over 100 applicants last year, but that doesn't mean you can't necessarily get a good job in SMOE.

great, thats not what i really wanted to hear. Are there any other programs that usually offer good, reputable public schools consistently? Any other programs i should be aware of or be hesitant about? Based on your experience, which academic level (elementary, middle, high) did you find most pleasing to work with (generally speaking)? I really don't know if i could stand like you mentioned teaching the alphabets to little kids for a year but then again, it'll be easy and laid back... i guess.

Also, will you always have a korean teacher with you or will that depend on the program? Sorry for the amount of questions and if some of these seem redundant.

[Yubumsuk]

great, thats not what i really wanted to hear. Are there any other programs that usually offer good, reputable public schools consistently? Any other programs i should be aware of or be hesitant about? Based on your experience, which academic level (elementary, middle, high) did you find most pleasing to work with (generally speaking)? I really don't know if i could stand like you mentioned teaching the alphabets to little kids for a year but then again, it'll be easy and laid back... i guess.

Also, will you always have a korean teacher with you or will that depend on the program? Sorry for the amount of questions and if some of these seem redundant.

No problem - I'm supervising a study block (i.e. babysitting a bunch of 18-year-olds) so I have lots of time to kill.

There are no large programmes that always offer good public school jobs. Every major programme has it's good jobs and bad ones, and jobs that suit some people better than others.

I like to teach academic high school best, followed by middle school. Technical / vocational high school is a distant third, with elementary school not even within my consideration. But that's just me. Others love to teach elementary and can't understand how I can put up with Korean teenagers all day long. Elementary hours are usually shorter, but high school has more class cancellations.

You may or may not have a Korean teacher with you, regardless of what your job description says on paper. At most schools you will have a number of 'co-teachers', a few of whom come to their scheduled lessons and are helpful, a few who do but aren't very helpful, and a few who try to avoid coming.

Off-topic: while I was writing this one of my 12th-graders in this study block wanted to go to the toilet but didn't know how to ask in English. She's been studying English since at least grade 5 elementary school and yet doesn't know 'May I go to the toilet?'. What a difference I feel I've made!

[kennesu]

teaching little kids is neither "easy" or "laid-back". i've worked with kids from 1st through 4th grade briefly after only teaching middle schoolers and i'd say it takes much more energy teaching the little ones. you have to be more expressive and almost theatrically. if you don't inherently like kids already then absolutely do NOT teach small children. older kids, they do something wrong and you tell him and they'll understand. for little kids, you also have to do a lot of cutting and laminating and... all that arts-and-crafts stuff that kids love doing.

from my personal experience and asking the korean teachers here, i would try to go for the older students. middle school is full of... puberty. they look like adults but they're still children. at least for high school many of them have matured enough where you can think of them more as adults.

whatever age group you choose, it's going to be difficult no matter what. if it's not, then you're either a teaching genius or... you're not trying hard enough.

and can we mention the 6-month honeymoon period for korea one more time here?

[Yubumsuk]

^ In my observation it's more like a three-month honeymoon and 6th-month bottoming out for a lot of folks. That's certainly how it worked for me, anyways.

[damyoungji]

Hm, I know I asked some questions here awhile back. Around that time, I e-mailed the Teach Away Inc.

I asked the organization about how many years of university and college you need to complete to apply there. I remember reading that it's two, but I wanted to check. Others on this forum have said that I don't need to major in English in order to teach. However, the response from the organization was different. In the e-mail they sent back to me, they said that I must graduate with a Bachelors degree O___o

[Yubumsuk]

Hm, I know I asked some questions here awhile back. Around that time, I e-mailed the Teach Away Inc.

I asked the organization about how many years of university and college you need to complete to apply there. I remember reading that it's two, but I wanted to check. Others on this forum have said that I don't need to major in English in order to teach. However, the response from the organization was different. In the e-mail they sent back to me, they said that I must graduate with a Bachelors degree O___o

You need at least a BA for most jobs, but you can work for TaLK with only two years of uni.

[jurassic5]

teaching little kids is neither "easy" or "laid-back". i've worked with kids from 1st through 4th grade briefly after only teaching middle schoolers and i'd say it takes much more energy teaching the little ones. you have to be more expressive and almost theatrically. if you don't inherently like kids already then absolutely do NOT teach small children. older kids, they do something wrong and you tell him and they'll understand. for little kids, you also have to do a lot of cutting and laminating and... all that arts-and-crafts stuff that kids love doing.

and can we mention the 6-month honeymoon period for korea one more time here?

i loved teaching the first thru 4th graders at my hakwon. i thought they were hilarious and were in general, pretty fun to work with (and I taught in Apku with over-bearing mothers and impossible expecations). it's what made me want to come back to the States and get my el. ed. cert (which i did, but not using at the moment). I taught in pre-school 2 summers ago and that sucked. had i known earlier it was a pre-school, i would have never taken the gig. oh well.

as for me and when i lived/worked in korea. it was more like a 3-4 month rollercoaster. got there, taught, went out a lot, spent lots of money, drank a lot. then we got bored with that and would stay in a lot, play video games, pc bang, hang out at home, then get bored with that and repeat cycle. feelings about the job and/or korea also ran in this cycle for me.

[Yubumsuk]

^ It's strange how some people can't stand teaching little kids but enjoy working with teenagers, while others are the opposite way around. I flat out refuse to work with students under 12. I just do not have the patience for it. On the flip side of the coin, my friend taught a few classes of my middle and high school students at her after-school academy. She couldn't stand them and told me that she dreaded my first-year high school students all week long. But she loved teaching the younger kids.

As for Korean kindergartens, they're my definition of the seventh circle of hell. I get the shivers just walking past them, and think, thank God that I don't have to work there.

[kennesu]

Yeah, it's best to figure all of that out before you come to Korea. You'll be bound by a one year contract and going to a hellish job everyday will screw you up. Hmm...

So I found out that one of my friends from back home wants to work at my school since she's graduating this December. This will be my second friend from home to come to our school. Hopefully, we'll outnumber the administration in the near future so we can plan a coup. >_<;

I think this is a good time to be looking for jobs in Korea. Keep at it guys.

[mizer_unmei]

I've been here for about a month and a half teaching at an elementary school in Anyang. I think it's pretty awesome and I love the kids. Some of them can be unruly to the extreme and when they get loud it's really hard to keep them quiet. (most class rooms have a little bell that signals quiet, which just boggles my mind. x.x) But overall, when you have an engaging class they are all pretty awesome. I love my 3rd graders because they're so cute and my 6th graders are great because I can talk to them with semi-complex sentences but without much of the brooding of middle school that I wouldn't be able to handle. I really think I'm definitely more of an Elementary person than not.