[Divine Hand]

Are you kiddin me? Lebrons D is still crap, it may have improved a LITTLE. Look at his slow reaction, his Defense is still below average. And his off the ball defense? Don't even talk about that, That's one of his biggest flaws. And NO, Lebron was not the main person for Dirks off shooting. Even thought it seemed Dirk was just off cause he usually made those shots. By the way it was Battier who was guarding Dirk most of the time and he did a great job of bringing his A game on Dirk.

If you are saying Dirk simply missed shots, then you're not giving the defenders (Battier/James) credit and the problem with that type of logic is if Dirk happened to be hitting those same shots, you would turn around and say, "The defense was bad." LeBron did a good job of getting under Dirk. If you're strong like James and can crowd a taller player by getting under him, you can give him trouble. LeBron's defense is not crap and both his NBA and FIBA PER ratings are respectable, meaning you're not being scientific in saying his defense is "crap" when the numbers say otherwise. LeBron's off-the-ball defense is fine because he has good hands and can read plays before the happen, hence the anticipation gives him an early start on plays.

And other thing I think that Battier was the best man-to-man defender while Wade was right below him. Lebrons D needs way more improvement if he wants to be up with Kobe,Tmac,KG,Duncan, and all the other elite players. His best defensive attribute has to be playing the lanes, which is going for steals and then going for easy breakaway dunks. But playing the lanes efficiently does not determine a great defensive player. Allen Iverson is the best player who can play the lanes efficiently, but he can't shut down the great players. Same with Lebron.

LeBron also has the strength to guard strong post players as well. So it's not just about leaking out into lanes, he can also guard the post. LeBron's already a top 3 player in the league. As he continues to improve, it's not about being up there with Kobe, TMac, KG or Duncan. It's simply about being better than them (you can already argue LeBron is as good or better than TMac right now who is slowing down with injuries). Funny you mentioned Iverson and LeBron because Cleveland put LeBron on Iverson one game and that move won Cleveland the game because James played good defense. Another interesting moment was when James slowed down Tony Parker. James simply needs to be more consistent. But he's shown very good defensive versatility because he's had good moments guarding small point guards to big power forwards. That type of defensive range is something a lot of other players can't do.

[DanMXStylez]

Lol of course you cant have a team full of superstars, you also need roleplayers, the spot up shooter, the go-to guy, etc. Gilbert Arenas sacrificed his role for the team which would probably been better. You need a TEAM and each team needs their guards, forwards, centers...

IMO USA should take care of their defense, and start playing basketball like a team. They also need to stop dunking so much, lol i guess its hard to resist cause they are so athletic and it wouldnt be fun if u just keep shooting, but that is the key to winning the game!

I also want to see T-Mac and Kobe in the game! (remember all-star game?)

PG-? SG-Kobe SF-? PF-? C-?. The question marks mean, it doesn't matter if it's an all star or a role player as long as there's Kobe.lol and If I wanted to put an All Star team then I wouldn't have put those question marks.

HAHAHA!!!!!!!

really though, Just because Larry Brown coached Team USA and didnt get gold doesnt mean that the team wasnt good, if u look at the team right now, they're in the same position. The problem is they havent had enough time to play as a team like other teams .... *NY KNICKS* HAHAHA just had to mention them.

but yeah...

"The Americans won the bronze medal at the world championships Saturday night with a 96-81 victory over Argentina"

[flipdragn]

They also need to stop dunking so much, lol i guess its hard to resist cause they are so athletic and it wouldnt be fun if u just keep shooting, but that is the key to winning the game!

well it wasn't like the shots were just falling down for the US so they had to drive it in more

[KeepinItReal]

If you are saying Dirk simply missed shots, then you're not giving the defenders (Battier/James) credit and the problem with that type of logic is if Dirk happened to be hitting those same shots, you would turn around and say, "The defense was bad." LeBron did a good job of getting under Dirk. If you're strong like James and can crowd a taller player by getting under him, you can give him trouble. LeBron's defense is not crap and both his NBA and FIBA PER ratings are respectable, meaning you're not being scientific in saying his defense is "crap" when the numbers say otherwise. LeBron's off-the-ball defense is fine because he has good hands and can read plays before the happen, hence the anticipation gives him an early start on plays.
LeBron also has the strength to guard strong post players as well. So it's not just about leaking out into lanes, he can also guard the post. LeBron's already a top 3 player in the league. As he continues to improve, it's not about being up there with Kobe, TMac, KG or Duncan. It's simply about being better than them (you can already argue LeBron is as good or better than TMac right now who is slowing down with injuries). Funny you mentioned Iverson and LeBron because Cleveland put LeBron on Iverson one game and that move won Cleveland the game because James played good defense. Another interesting moment was when James slowed down Tony Parker. James simply needs to be more consistent. But he's shown very good defensive versatility because he's had good moments guarding small point guards to big power forwards. That type of defensive range is something a lot of other players can't do.

1. I'm saying that Dirk missed his shots cause of himself, but that was not the only reason why he was off. I gave credit to Battier was hassling him with his tenacious D on Dirk. Battier guarded Dirk more than Lebron, and when Battier did, Dirk couldn't do anything. And Lebron didn't even guard Dirk as much to be giving him thumbs up. So are you saying that Lebron's defense is not below average? In my book, below average is considered crap. Stats don't determine defensive players. Players like Bowen and Artest don't have stats to prove their tight defensive yet they are considered the best wing defenders in the league. Playing defense is bothering the offensive player enough to miss shots or cause turnovers like moving your hands alot, and keeping with his pace. Able to make him not take open shots, and make easy shots. Putting your hands in front of the face, and using your other hand to limit the dribbling. If you play basketball and you play defense then you know what I mean. There are no stats to help prove these actions. Lebron was able to shut down Iverson, because Iverson was old and he was smaller/weaker in size and stature than Lebron. Isn't it obvious that any player with Lebrons size wouldve shut down Iverson? And I don't think Lebron shut Iverson down completely like Kobe can against Iverson. And how is Lebron already a top three player? Aren't you loving lebron way too much?? Kobe, Tmac,Shaq, KG, Duncan, Nash, Amare, Wade, Dirk, and many more are above Lebron. Lebron is probably a top 15 player, but top 3 cmon think realistically. If his defense was medicore at best then yes he would be up with the top players. Right now his defense is the reason why most experts would agree that he's not up there just yet. And yes I am seein improvements, but he still has a long way to go. I'm not hating on James, but I'm just telling you that his defense is the only flaw in his game. Other than that, he is a great player to watch. I enjoy watching him play.

[Divine Hand]

1. I'm saying that Dirk missed his shots cause of himself, but that was not the only reason why he was off. I gave credit to Battier was hassling him with his tenacious D on Dirk. Battier guarded Dirk more than Lebron, and when Battier did, Dirk couldn't do anything. And Lebron didn't even guard Dirk as much to be giving him thumbs up. So are you saying that Lebron's defense is not below average?

Yes, I am saying LeBron's defense is not below average.

In my book, below average is considered crap.

Then your standards have a sharp drop off point and seem rather black and white. You go from average suddenly to "crap" on your scale.

Stats don't determine defensive players. Players like Bowen and Artest don't have stats to prove their tight defensive yet they are considered the best wing defenders in the league.

Bowen and Artest have very nice defensive stats. You'd be hard pressed to find a great defender who makes defensive teams and gets respect around the league like Bowen or Artest, yet has crappy defensive stats. It pretty much goes hand-in-hand. When Artest won The Defensive Player Of The Year Award, his coach was campaigning for him and was constantly mentioning Ron's great defensive stats to sway the voters. And apparently it worked.

Playing defense is bothering the offensive player enough to miss shots or cause turnovers like moving your hands alot, and keeping with his pace. Able to make him not take open shots, and make easy shots. Putting your hands in front of the face, and using your other hand to limit the dribbling. If you play basketball and you play defense then you know what I mean. There are no stats to help prove these actions. Lebron was able to shut down Iverson, because Iverson was old and he was smaller/weaker in size and stature than Lebron. Isn't it obvious that any player with Lebrons size wouldve shut down Iverson? And I don't think Lebron shut Iverson down completely like Kobe can against Iverson.

For a guy his size, LeBron should not be able to guard Iverson at all. And when I mean that, I literally mean it. As in, LeBron shouldn't even have 1 good day against Iverson. Why? Because LeBron is about as big as some power forwards. Imagine telling an average sized power forward, "Hey, you need to guard Allen tonight." It would be crazy. Don't listen to the "official weight" of James. He's at least 250 pounds. So telling a guy that big to guard smaller, quicker guys who are like 70 pounds lighter is hard. Kobe does a better job at guarding those super small guys because he's closer to their size than LeBron. Since he's about 20 pounds lighter and a few inches shorter, the size disparity isn't as awful for when Kobe guards a guy like Iverson compared to when James did it.

And how is Lebron already a top three player? Aren't you loving lebron way too much?? Kobe, Tmac,Shaq, KG, Duncan, Nash, Amare, Wade, Dirk, and many more are above Lebron. Lebron is probably a top 15 player, but top 3 cmon think realistically. If his defense was medicore at best then yes he would be up with the top players. Right now his defense is the reason why most experts would agree that he's not up there just yet. And yes I am seein improvements, but he still has a long way to go. I'm not hating on James, but I'm just telling you that his defense is the only flaw in his game. Other than that, he is a great player to watch. I enjoy watching him play.

LeBron is definitely above top 15. You don't drop a 31/7/6 season, after dropping a 27/7/7 season the year before and be a top 15 player. He's having historical seasons that are only matched by other Hall of Famers like Michael Jordan, Larry Bird and the likes. Last year he finished 2nd in the MVP voting. Nash winning back-to-back awards was controversial but if Nash didn't win it, then James was next in line. So you can say LeBron has been playing at an MVP type level. When you're playing like that, you're an elite player in the game.

[small_jay 101]

blah..it's only the FIBA world championships...wake me up when the regular season starts..until then...NFL time!

Yeah really the season doesn't start for a while and yeah true its about the NFL

[gary]

FIBA uses a smaller baller that favors finesse shooters but players who have a rough release or chuck the ball at the rim loose something on their touch. The ball itself is slicker with less grip than NBA balls, something several U.S. players from the past and present have mentioned. Thus the ball itself is harder to control. It's like using a slick women's ball. Under international rules, you have fewer fouls, the game is shorter, the trapezoid lane discourages post play and the shorter 3-point line means the offense is dictated by pick-and-pop plays based off the pick-and-roll. Perimeter shooting is the general basis of the international game, moreso than in the NBA game. There isn't illegal defense under international rules, so driving is harder because the lane is constantly packed. NBA rules penalize teams for sagging in the paint but under international rules, you are free the pack lanes as tightly as you want without a 3-second rule to punish you. Thus you face different defenses and the offense is played differently because it becomes more a game of shooting and ball movememnt, opposed to the NBA where isolation and slashing and driving-and-pitching are the key elements. These differences can explain why some of the international players who are stars in the home country and have accomplishments in international basketball, struggle and sometimes sit the bench in the NBA, not playing and not contributing much.

the ball interested me. now, you're going to have to explain this, because i don't understand.

for int'l ball, it's "Maximum Circumference 78 cm (30.7")"
for nba ball, it's "Around channels 29 1/2" to 29 3/4" Across channels 29 5/8" to 29 7/8""

now, just by looking at numbers that says the the nba ball is smaller. but i don't really understand the channel length crap, so i'm hoping you can explain.

secondly, if you've ever played with a girls ball, you'd know that it's easier to shoot. it's much easier to get your hands around the ball. in my case i can palm the ball which makes driving and shooting a much easier task. now, i don't care who you are, if the ball is smaller, its going to help.

and yes, i realize that my two statements are contradicting.

[Mr.FrostbiteIceSkater]

I'm sorry, but where have you been during the FIBA? Remember the so-called "All-Star Team" put together for Athens with Larry Brown as coach? Seems like you have no recollection of that disaster. Putting stars together isn't going to get you victories. Chemistry gets you victories. Every player has their egos. If you put scorers into the line-up (i.e., T-Mac, Kobe, KG) together, the idea of domination is there, but in reality, it'll end up to be another failure. A realistic US team has role players too, not just stars. Easy concept to understand.

As for the current US team, there aren't really many changes to make. This was a young team with little experience in the International game that was built for the future. The potential that lies in this team is immense. Add veteran experience from Kobe, and a floor leader like Billups, and you've got the full package. Coach K knows what he's doing. It's not about ruining the flow and what not. If something you've been doing all game hasn't been effective, it's necessary to change. As for Colangelo building a team, he definitely knows what he's doing. Putting the Team-first identity over individuality is something to praise.

Notice how the US got burned on outside shooting. And how they couldn't even deal with pick-and-rolls against Greece. It's not whether Dwight Howard can keep up with the more versatile International big guys, or whether Kirk Hinrich and keep up with the slower guards. Defense is played as a team. You get picked off, another player is supposed to help you out, not let you get smoked out. Besides, Hinrich was playing great defense all tournament long.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment. The poster to which you were directing your response towards has a point indeed. A team of All stars like Kobe, TMac, Carter, Shaq, Kidd, Wade, Lebron, Allen, Pierece, Marion, Iverson, Garnett, etc. would not have lost this tournament, even with one hand tied behind their back. The idea that the world has caught up is being blown out of proportion. These recent teams including the one chosen for Athens pale in comparison to a real, "true" dream team, which if selected would just dominate. I know there is the argument about team chemistry, ego's, etc. but for real, just put the best players together like the first couple dream teams. These new teams are being chosen based on age, teamwork, etc. That's why they've chosen such a young core group of players, kobe, lebron, anthony, wade, hinrich, paul etc, they want them to grow together, sort of using a national team concept/model. This will likely work and people will point to it's successs when in fact they could just choose a great dream team stacked with top players and win easily. It's a complete joke to make the assertion that the Athens team was a dream team type team, and then link it's failure as a consequence of choosing an all-star team. It simply was a bad team. All they had really was Duncan and Iverson that are truly elite players at the time. They had a few rookies thrown in there, and a couple blowjobzz like Marbury. hahahha what a joke, they were missing Carter, Kobe, Shaq, tMac, pierce etc. Oh yea, of course the U.S. execs have always made it clear that not everyone wants to play for the U.S. being arrogant basketball stars, it's a god damn privledge to be on the team, those losers don't realize it, so that my friend, is why the U.S. is forced to use the team concept/model, and hence have created a contractual national team, where players sign on for a certain number of years to play in the world championships, and olympic games. But seriously, all in all, a stacked all star type team would win. Let's just put it this way, if u were given $10,000 to gamble on a team in the olympics, either a stacked olympic team, or this national program type team, where would u put it? hahahaha. peace nigs!

[Divine Hand]

the ball interested me. now, you're going to have to explain this, because i don't understand.

for int'l ball, it's "Maximum Circumference 78 cm (30.7")"
for nba ball, it's "Around channels 29 1/2" to 29 3/4" Across channels 29 5/8" to 29 7/8""

now, just by looking at numbers that says the the nba ball is smaller. but i don't really understand the channel length crap, so i'm hoping you can explain.

What is interesting is that some international basketball fans from Greece and Spain were saying the ball is the same size. Then your measurements above say the international ball is actually larger than the American ball. And in this article, LeBron James comments about the international ball actually being smaller.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/basket...rs/15373805.htm

• James has been bothered by the smaller, slicker ball being used by FIBA.

"It was a struggle at first, to tell the truth,'' he said.

He has lost control of the ball when changing direction on drives to the basket during the tournament. The Japanese-made ball is synthetic leather, not unlike the new ball that will be used in the NBA this season. There might be an adjustment period then, as well.

If the international ball is smaller or even larger, then size is a legitimate issue. But if the balls are the same size, then all this hoopla is coming just from its relative lack of grip.

secondly, if you've ever played with a girls ball, you'd know that it's easier to shoot. it's much easier to get your hands around the ball. in my case i can palm the ball which makes driving and shooting a much easier task. now, i don't care who you are, if the ball is smaller, its going to help.

and yes, i realize that my two statements are contradicting.

I like women's balls as well but my hands aren't as big as LeBron James and unlike him, I'm a finesse shooter. Some of the Team USA players shot the ball better like Anthony. If you have a nice scientific, smooth stroke, the smaller ball is up your alley. But if you have a combination of big hands and a rough, herky-jerky delivery on your shot, you may need to bank more shots in and use angles when you shoot. Proceed to work yourself in a rhythm, find your stroke, then you're set. What amazes me is how some decent (not great but solid) NBA shooters do completely horrible in international basketball, missing the closer 3-pointers in the international game, then go back to the NBA and shoot a higher percentage at the NBA's longer 3-pointer. For the life of me, it's just hard to understand (well you can understand it but it's still very odd).

[KeepinItReal]

Divine why are you being so stubborn with Lebron? Are you that obsessed with Lebron James? It seems like you saying that he is the perfect player and that he is flawless. It's like hes god to you. And, I mentioned that his greatest flaw is his defense and you come after me like a hungry lion.

[thelivinlegend21]

I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment. The poster to which you were directing your response towards has a point indeed. A team of All stars like Kobe, TMac, Carter, Shaq, Kidd, Wade, Lebron, Allen, Pierece, Marion, Iverson, Garnett, etc. would not have lost this tournament, even with one hand tied behind their back. The idea that the world has caught up is being blown out of proportion. These recent teams including the one chosen for Athens pale in comparison to a real, "true" dream team, which if selected would just dominate. I know there is the argument about team chemistry, ego's, etc. but for real, just put the best players together like the first couple dream teams. These new teams are being chosen based on age, teamwork, etc. That's why they've chosen such a young core group of players, kobe, lebron, anthony, wade, hinrich, paul etc, they want them to grow together, sort of using a national team concept/model. This will likely work and people will point to it's successs when in fact they could just choose a great dream team stacked with top players and win easily. It's a complete joke to make the assertion that the Athens team was a dream team type team, and then link it's failure as a consequence of choosing an all-star team. It simply was a bad team. All they had really was Duncan and Iverson that are truly elite players at the time. They had a few rookies thrown in there, and a couple blowjobzz like Marbury. hahahha what a joke, they were missing Carter, Kobe, Shaq, tMac, pierce etc. Oh yea, of course the U.S. execs have always made it clear that not everyone wants to play for the U.S. being arrogant basketball stars, it's a god damn privledge to be on the team, those losers don't realize it, so that my friend, is why the U.S. is forced to use the team concept/model, and hence have created a contractual national team, where players sign on for a certain number of years to play in the world championships, and olympic games. But seriously, all in all, a stacked all star type team would win. Let's just put it this way, if u were given $10,000 to gamble on a team in the olympics, either a stacked olympic team, or this national program type team, where would u put it? hahahaha. peace nigs!

So you want to be realistic? Fine, I'll bring up the Dream Team from '92. Not only were these guys stars, they could co-exist with each other and make the team better. Take Magic, Bird, and MJ, all were known to have an aura that made their players better. A top notch point guard in John Stockton, a role player in Pippen, and great centers like Robinson and Ewing.

Now, the line up that you suggested would not be a success at all. Not unless I saw it with my own eyes. Theoretically, that team would fail miserably. Kobe, Carter, T-Mac, Shaq, and so forth would not be able to play with each other without their egotistical attitudes taking over. Elite players will win you games, but not all. Dominant teams are surrounded by role players. People willing to give up individual statistics. But from what I've seen in the years, these so-called "elite players" are not surrounded with the quality players of the past. I said it before, and I will say it again. That All-Star team will not be dominant. You said, "The world hasn't caught up yet." Well, it seems like International programs are right up with us doesn't it? You make it sound simple, but there are so many variables that you haven't even gone over. I quote you, "It's a complete joke" to even deduce that a star ridden team will succeed. It's not as easy as stacking a team together and hoping to win the gold. Sheer athleticism and talent will only win the majority. Honestly, if you stacked the stars together, and gave me this year's team, I'd put my money on this team to win it. But I'm sure you're too shallow to understand anyways.

Did I ever state that the Athens team was even All-Star caliber? Not really. Assumptions usually lead to false reasoning, and that's where you're at. Iverson is notorious for his individuality. Duncan's really not a floor leader. Besides, the team had far more talent that that of this year's. Basically, it was an irrelevant argument that I shouldn't have brought up in the first place. It's just going to draw controversy. The coaching staff was poorly chosen, and the players could not co-exist. End of story.

In any case, US players have the athleticism to deal with any International team. Put a bunch of bench players together, and I believe they can still win.

@KeepinItReal

"So saying that they were young is just an excuse on your part. I think there other factors that caused the US team to lose and that is that they didn't how Greece players play since there weren't any Greece players who played in the NBA. "

No excuse was being made. Re-read what I said and think about it. It's a waste of my time to even type out a reason.

As for the loss against Greece, I didn't deny it. They plainly played poor defense. US deserved to lose. Why? They couldn't even cover against a simple pick-and-roll. Quick, easy, done.

[Divine Hand]

Divine why are you being so stubborn with Lebron? Are you that obsessed with Lebron James?
It seems like you saying that he is the perfect player and that he is flawless. It's like hes god to you. And, I mentioned that his greatest flaw is his defense and you come after me like a hungry lion.

I think LeBron James catches flack with exaggerated statements. I see guys all the time say LeBron needs to step it up. It's just that they don't call him crap in the process. So it's not about saying James has flaws that bothers me because I realize he has them as well. It's just that going overboard that gets me. For example, I see guys say Kobe needs to be more unselfish. A lot of people wouldn't agree with that statement because they already think Kobe is unselfish. But if you say your opinion like that, nobody's feathers get ruffled. But if somebody says, "Kobe hasn't passed the ball in 3 years," something like that is just too extreme, even guys who think Kobe needs to be more unselfish would even say, "Kobe has work to do but he isn't that bad."

LeBron has a lot to work on. But he's better than what people give him credit for. I don't mean to bite your head off. If it comes off that way, I'm sorry.

[huangmeixi]

So you want to be realistic? Fine, I'll bring up the Dream Team from '92. Not only were these guys stars, they could co-exist with each other and make the team better. Take Magic, Bird, and MJ, all were known to have an aura that made their players better. A top notch point guard in John Stockton, a role player in Pippen, and great centers like Robinson and Ewing.

Now, the line up that you suggested would not be a success at all. Not unless I saw it with my own eyes. Theoretically, that team would fail miserably. Kobe, Carter, T-Mac, Shaq, and so forth would not be able to play with each other without their egotistical attitudes taking over. Elite players will win you games, but not all. Dominant teams are surrounded by role players. People willing to give up individual statistics. But from what I've seen in the years, these so-called "elite players" are not surrounded with the quality players of the past. I said it before, and I will say it again. That All-Star team will not be dominant. You said, "The world hasn't caught up yet." Well, it seems like International programs are right up with us doesn't it? You make it sound simple, but there are so many variables that you haven't even gone over. I quote you, "It's a complete joke" to even deduce that a star ridden team will succeed. It's not as easy as stacking a team together and hoping to win the gold. Sheer athleticism and talent will only win the majority. Honestly, if you stacked the stars together, and gave me this year's team, I'd put my money on this team to win it. But I'm sure you're too shallow to understand anyways.

Did I ever state that the Athens team was even All-Star caliber? Not really. Assumptions usually lead to false reasoning, and that's where you're at. Iverson is notorious for his individuality. Duncan's really not a floor leader. Besides, the team had far more talent that that of this year's. Basically, it was an irrelevant argument that I shouldn't have brought up in the first place. It's just going to draw controversy. The coaching staff was poorly chosen, and the players could not co-exist. End of story.

In any case, US players have the athleticism to deal with any International team. Put a bunch of bench players together, and I believe they can still win.

I agree... that team would be horrible. They are selfish, and it shows in the fact that they won't play in international events. They are too interested in money and not about basketball.

[small_jay 101]

Yesterday USA lost to Greece now they got kicked out of it. Now we are heading to the 3rd place game.
That sucks man I think we will do better next year.

[flipdragn]

well at least we got the bronze

[kimn]

Gold would be better though. I dont know much about International Basketball and stuff but I though American Basketball was best.... I guess I am wrong. Wells, maybe cause there are different rules and changes.

[res0nate]

Agreed w/Livinglegend in regards to chemistry and whatnot from the 92 team compared to throwing in a bunch of 'allstars' that would not be able to function as a team. (also helps that the calibre of players outside of the US back then compared to now is different)

lol at Kobe, Vince and McGrady on the floor at the same time. Unless they've got someone that can distribute the ball and manage to keep xx ego's in check + 20shots a game, go for it.

[KeepinItReal]

^ you idiot, look at the all stars game. These super stars that you consider to have too much individualism had great chemistry with other players when they played with each other. Whatever dawg, an all star team consisting of Kobe, tmac, Kg,Duncan, shaq. and etc. will just dominate the international team. It wouldnt even be a game to them.

[flipdragn]

wow, you have a real problem with people who disagree with you

[res0nate]

Lol, Allstar game and playing games that mean a medal or Ring, really, they're the same thing.