[ZWD]

kobe ain't no MJ, and phil jackson's got one foot out the door.
Trust me, the Fakers arent going anywhere. Not until they stop wasting cap space on guys like chris mihm and smush parker.

That guy played terribly this season. He won't be returning to the Lakers.

I remember he was alright (though turn-over prone) the previous season but he just self-destructed this year.

[Krn_Track_Star]

Celtics have a better chance of getting KG then Mavs.

hmm not really who can celtics offer for kg that wolves really want. paul pierce is not going to replace kg. mavs can offer alot of players. harris,terry, stackhouse, diop, dampier. i mean if the wovles really wanted howard in the mix im sure mavs would give them howard. the trade can happen like this for the mavs. terry,harris, diop and a draft pick for kg (replace ne one on that list for howard, dampier). i think mavs got a huge chance

[thelivinlegend21]

well didnt wade take the heats into the playoffs and win in the first round his rookie year? yes didnt he with a supporting cast that had barley ne thing going oh wait it wuz most of the lakers players. wade even made it out in the first round his rookie season.

excatly everything takes time. you say kobe has like 9 years left that is bs. that means he would retire at the age of 38 which is soo bs. even the almightly MJ didnt retire that late the first time. he retired at the age of 36 from the bulls.

yall people havent realized that everything takes time. for example look at the suns. they were such a bad team after barkley left in the 90's but what happen they drafter a player name amare stoudemire and built the team kind of around him but not entirely around him then they added the mix of steve nash which helped them alot. to my point u have to eventually move on with business and start all over again.

quit life.

Wade hardly took his team into the playoffs in his rookie year. the guy was averaging 16.2 pts, and 4.5 assists. that's a sorry excuse for leading. stellar rookie season, i must say and more amazing than most, but to say that he took them in and won...that's a joke. don't even go there. i'm not taking anything away from Wade. he did his thing in last year's finals and was the reason the Heat won the championship. congratulations, stop drooling all over Dwayne Wade.

MJ retired, and came back did he not? everyone has a few good years left in them. look at Gary Payton. the guy's 38 going on 39. he's still playing some ball. what age did Reggie Miller retire? he played from 1987-2005. 18 years! to say that he would retire at age 38 would be FAR FROM bs. that's why i said that having no career jeopardizing injuries would give him some game left. get your facts straight. people play beyond their years. check out Kevin Willis. the guy's like 80 and he's playing on the Mavericks. sure, they might not be doing much, but they can still contribute.

ahem, the Suns were as bad as the Portland Trailblazers from 02-04, until Steve Nash came along. can you really confirm that they tried building around Amare? heck, if i didn't know what i was doing, i'd pick up Steve Nash if he was available. he was doing great things in Dallas, but his time in Phoenix is just that much more amazing. so to say that the Suns built their team around Amare is kind of jumping the gun.

please, come back with facts and not your supportless replies.

[GO!zilla]

hmm not really who can celtics offer for kg that wolves really want. paul pierce is not going to replace kg. mavs can offer alot of players. harris,terry, stackhouse, diop, dampier. i mean if the wovles really wanted howard in the mix im sure mavs would give them howard. the trade can happen like this for the mavs. terry,harris, diop and a draft pick for kg (replace ne one on that list for howard, dampier). i think mavs got a huge chance

go watch your espn cuz ur talking sports out of your ass.

boston has more of a chance to land kg just for these 2 reasons.

#1 kevin mchale is an idiot
#2 mchale and danny ange are close friends

for wolves it was never about winning "now."

[Krn_Track_Star]

quit life.

Wade hardly took his team into the playoffs in his rookie year. the guy was averaging 16.2 pts, and 4.5 assists. that's a sorry excuse for leading. stellar rookie season, i must say and more amazing than most, but to say that he took them in and won...that's a joke. don't even go there. i'm not taking anything away from Wade. he did his thing in last year's finals and was the reason the Heat won the championship. congratulations, stop drooling all over Dwayne Wade.

MJ retired, and came back did he not? everyone has a few good years left in them. look at Gary Payton. the guy's 38 going on 39. he's still playing some ball. what age did Reggie Miller retire? he played from 1987-2005. 18 years! to say that he would retire at age 38 would be FAR FROM bs. that's why i said that having no career jeopardizing injuries would give him some game left. get your facts straight. people play beyond their years. check out Kevin Willis. the guy's like 80 and he's playing on the Mavericks. sure, they might not be doing much, but they can still contribute.

ahem, the Suns were as bad as the Portland Trailblazers from 02-04, until Steve Nash came along. can you really confirm that they tried building around Amare? heck, if i didn't know what i was doing, i'd pick up Steve Nash if he was available. he was doing great things in Dallas, but his time in Phoenix is just that much more amazing. so to say that the Suns built their team around Amare is kind of jumping the gun.

please, come back with facts and not your supportless replies.

hmmm ok here

96-97 season they finished 40-42

http://www.nba.com/suns/history/9697_recap.html

97-98 they finished 56-26 but got aced by S.A

http://www.nba.com/suns/history/00682881.html

98-99 they finished only with 27 wins but managed to make it to the playoffs

http://www.nba.com/suns/history/9899_recap.html

hmm i can go on and on with my resources. the team did not make progress until they got Amare. they improved soo much since the aquired him.

ok u also say wade didnt take the heats to the playoffs. ok did u even watch the playoff games his rookie season against the hornets when they beat them. hmm wut does this say 2003-04: Dwyane Wade Leads The HEAT Back To The Playoffs ( source ( http://www.nba.com/heat/history/yearbyyear_0304.html ) it also says this He revived his NBA career by averaging 17.1 points, and a career and franchise high 9.7 rebounds. He also dropped 61 3-pointers and had 4.1 assists in a career-high 80 games. LOOK WUT IT SAYS

His 27 points on 5/2/04 against the New Orleans Hornets was the highest scoring playoff game for a HEAT rookie in franchise history. He is also the first rookie since Arvydas Sabonis (1995-96 season) to record four 20+ point games in the same playoff series. Wade also joined Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James in the Got Milk? NBA All-Rookie First Team on April 27, having received 56 points each. And undrafted rookie Udonis Haslem made Second Team with 21 points

hmm if i get this stright didnt wade do soo much for that team. apparently u dont even read the history pages nor pay attention so before u start bashing go do some research yourself.

[thelivinlegend21]

hmm i can go on and on with my resources. the team did not make progress until they got Amare. they improved soo much since the aquired him.

ok u also say wade didnt take the heats to the playoffs. ok did u even watch the playoff games his rookie season against the hornets when they beat them. hmm wut does this say 2003-04: Dwyane Wade Leads The HEAT Back To The Playoffs ( source ( http://www.nba.com/heat/history/yearbyyear_0304.html ) it also says this He revived his NBA career by averaging 17.1 points, and a career and franchise high 9.7 rebounds. He also dropped 61 3-pointers and had 4.1 assists in a career-high 80 games. LOOK WUT IT SAYS

His 27 points on 5/2/04 against the New Orleans Hornets was the highest scoring playoff game for a HEAT rookie in franchise history. He is also the first rookie since Arvydas Sabonis (1995-96 season) to record four 20+ point games in the same playoff series. Wade also joined Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James in the Got Milk? NBA All-Rookie First Team on April 27, having received 56 points each. And undrafted rookie Udonis Haslem made Second Team with 21 points

hmm if i get this stright didnt wade do soo much for that team. apparently u dont even read the history pages nor pay attention so before u start bashing go do some research yourself.

sorry, but i still think the Phoenix Suns were a bad excuse for a team until they got Steve Nash.

so that's what the article says. you're going to jump to conclusions after 1 article title? haha. oh, and i like how you cut out everything it said about Lamar Odom. Wade only averaged 16.2 pts and 4.5 assists. can you please tell me how a rookie can revive his career? GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT, please. thanks.

i really like how you're going to base your entire argument off 1 article and about making All-Rookie First Team. um, that's great, but he hardly had the same loser roster that the Lakers had. let's go through it here...they had Rafer Alston (much better than Smush), Caron Butler whom the Lakers let go of, Eddie Jones (who was still useful at the time), and James Posey. much better role players in my opinion. i'll give you props for doing your research, but how the depth you go through is so shallow. it's almost as shallow as your thought process.

-edit
by the way, i just looked it up. Eddie Jones was averaging 17 points at the time. tell me, where do you get such balanced scoring on the Lakers? don't even bother giving me that argument that Kobe takes more shots. ENOUGH shots go around the team, it's just their lack of ability to make shots. be it they're demoralized about being a compliment player to Bryant, lackadaisical while watching the Kobe Bryant Show, or just unable to make shots, they have trouble both offensively and defensively. The Heat already had their pieces, thank you very much.

[SereneKrn]

The Suns becoming an elite team in the west has several factors. Good fortune of Steve Nash staying healthy. Mike D'Antoni changing how the Suns played which led to more possessions and better stats from all around. The league being easier to get fouls called in. I would say Amare has nothing to do with their success as they were fine 2 seasons ago without him.

Dwayne Wade is a product of the NBA catering its referees to star players. Dwayne Wade has to get the most BS calls in the NBA every night. If you put any good SG aside from Wade and Kobe with Shaq they would have won those titles too. Dwayne Wade just might bet he most overrated star in the NBA today.

As far as KG, if the Celtics were to offer the #5 Pick, Al Jefferson, Green, and filler for KG, the Wolves have to take that deal. The C's can probably offer the best package for KG. It's just a matter of what other teams offer.

[GO!zilla]

The Suns becoming an elite team in the west has several factors. Good fortune of Steve Nash staying healthy. Mike D'Antoni changing how the Suns played which led to more possessions and better stats from all around. The league being easier to get fouls called in. I would say Amare has nothing to do with their success as they were fine 2 seasons ago without him.

Dwayne Wade is a product of the NBA catering its referees to star players. Dwayne Wade has to get the most BS calls in the NBA every night. If you put any good SG aside from Wade and Kobe with Shaq they would have won those titles too. Dwayne Wade just might bet he most overrated star in the NBA today.

As far as KG, if the Celtics were to offer the #5 Pick, Al Jefferson, Green, and filler for KG, the Wolves have to take that deal. The C's can probably offer the best package for KG. It's just a matter of what other teams offer.

i agree with everything u mentioned here. you can also add lebrick james to second paragraph.

those are good pieces for the wolves to rebuild their team. just like clippers, go young and get good draft picks. you might suffer for couple years but better than nothing. and mchale would be dumb to trade with maveriks and i havent even heard of that rumor krn track star. i've heard of jason kidd going to mavs but nothing about kg. don't believe everything you hear on ur local news.

and suns did not become a team of their caliber if it wasn't for the emergence of STEVE NASH. not amare. without nash, you wouldn't know who barbosa, raja bell and rest of them were. Nash elevates their game because he is a true point guard. I don't even think amare would post half of his offensive stats without nash.

[DOVAHKIIN]

98-99 they finished only with 27 wins but managed to make it to the playoffs
http://www.nba.com/suns/history/9899_recap.html

only 27 wins? You are aware that was the lockout season right? there was only 50 games instead of 82.

Now I'll do my OWN research:

Wikipedia:
The following season, Stoudemire improved statistically, but his team stumbled to a 29-53 record, and the self-proclaimed best point guard in the NBA, Stephon Marbury, was traded to the New York Knicks.During the summer of 2004, Stoudemire was selected to play for the United States national team in the 2004 Summer Olympics. However, head coach Larry Brown declined to give him significant playing time over established NBA stars. During the 2004-05 NBA season, Stoudemire teamed up with point guard Steve Nash to lead the Suns to a 62-20 record. Averaging 26 points per game that year and achieving a new career high of 50 points against the Portland Trail Blazers on January 2, 2005, he was selected to his first National Basketball Association All-Star Game as a reserve forward. In the Western Conference Finals against the San Antonio Spurs, Stoudemire performed brilliantly, averaging 37 points during the series. However, the Suns were eliminated 4 games to 1.

blue font shows that you are incorrect about Amare's arrival in the league which turned the Suns' woes around. bolded font shows Nash turning the Suns around.

besides, the eastern conference is a joke.
if teams like the suns, pistons, mavericks, and jazz are already 'fine' the way they are, how come they didn't make it to the finals? how can you possibly call the mavs 'fine the way they are' if they're getting eliminated in the first round by 8th seed teams? even if the match-up was in favor of the warriors, it obviously shows that the mavs do have weaknesses and is not fine the way they are. only the spurs are fine the way they are because they have the title to show for it.

Oh please, we all know the Warriors just went crazy with the three-point shooting throughout their entire playoff run and the Mavs wouldn't have stopped it unless they sent DeSagana Diop to sit on Baron Davis' face.

Let me rephrase what I said: Those teams are fine without Kobe. Every single team has its weaknesses. The 72-10 Chicago Bulls lost a game to the new-in-the-league-terrible-as-hell Toronto Raptors in that season.

Spurs only have the title this year because they played the choking Cavs, a team which is from, like you said, the Eastern Conference that is a joke.

this is off-topic but in my opinion, guards who average 21/3/3 are a dime a dozen. heck, i think brandon roy might even average that next season. they may break out one year and become an all-star, but i've seen way too many guards make their way to the top only to come crashing down. steve francis anyone?

Oh please, Francis only got screwed over because Yao Ming became the Rocket's new offensive threat focus at the time. Sending him to the Magic was fine, his numbers went back up, but the emergence of Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson + Grant Hill's comeback as offensive options for the Magic screwed him over even more. And of course, being stuck on the craptacular Knicks with the reject likes of Marbury, Crawford, Eddy Curry and Q-Rich don't help him very much. The only way Ben Gordon's ever gonna get screwed over is if he either gets a huge injury or if some newbie comes into the Bulls and establishes himself as the top offensive threat over Gordon.


As for the Dwayne Wade argument. Okay, the guy did not instantly turn the Heat around in his rookie year, despite them making the playoffs. The 8 seeds in the East were pretty whack that year. They faced the New Orleans Hornets, a team which has never been an established threat in the league. In fact, that year I was going "who the hell is Dwayne Wade?" and "what the heck, how did the Heat make it in?" With Shaq in town, the entire system in the Heat's playing style changed. Now yes, I agree, any guard (or any player in general) that had Shaq floating around in his prime years probably would've became a championship team. However, Wade's drastically improved numbers didn't exactly come from Shaq throwing Nash-like alley-oop or no look passes... he did SOMETHING. And we all agree it was all Wade in last year's NBA Finals? Alright then. I agree, Wade's name is being thrown around like he's Jordan, but that's what happens when wannabe NBA fans jump on the Heat bandwagon. I was sick of seeing in other forums with topics like: "What team in the NBA is the best?" and I automatically saw "Miami Heat" from 13-17 year old girls who knew nothing about the NBA except from what they heard from their wannabe baller boyfriends who also knew jack about the whole league and its players. Then there were the topics, "Who's the best player?" And I read Dwayne Wade. Quite annoying. Seeing Wade on the cover of the NBA Live 06 I bought? Annoying as well. But I'm not too critical on Wade. He does what he can with an injury-plagued team full of aging (no-longer) star players who'd be better off swinging golf clubs.

Nash argument? There really isn't one. Without a doubt, Nash back in the Suns changed the team's fortunes for good. The Shawn Marion of today gets his looks from Nash. The old Shawn Marion had to wait for his shoot-first point guard Stephon Marbury to hog the ball, and then shoot on his own. Same for Amare. Yeah, Amare wouldn't be the hype that he is is in these past few years if it wasn't for Nash's passes. Barbosa, Raja Bell and Diaw? All Nash helping them out.

I doubt Kidd would be on the Mavericks. Jason Terry plays a vital role to the Mavericks' successes, so there's no reason to get Kidd.

I've said enough about the Kobe-Lakers situation. As for the KG-Wolves case... something definitely has to be done. At least the Lakers made the playoffs. The one-hit wonder trio of KG, Latrell Spreewell, and Sam Cassell was terrific. KG, Ricky Davis and Mikes James however, no. Unfortunately, I can't hate on the T-Wolves' roster as much as I hate on the Lakers' because I don't pay attention to the Wolves.

Someone please just get KG the ring he deserves.

Oh and guys, constructive criticism towards one another please, none of these insults specifically made to one another.

[Atron]

I think the the shove that Horry did on Nash got them a one way ticket to winning the finals >_>. lets all thanks horry. he can clutch shoot and take one for the team.

[RiderKamen]

I think the the shove that Horry did on Nash got them a one way ticket to winning the finals >_>. lets all thanks horry. he can clutch shoot and take one for the team.

f horry lol

[GO!zilla]

I think the the shove that Horry did on Nash got them a one way ticket to winning the finals >_>. lets all thanks horry. he can clutch shoot and take one for the team.

i disagree, nash flopped. hes known to flop. and all the nba players know the rule and you gotta obey them. their fault.

[RiderKamen]

i disagree, nash flopped. hes known to flop. and all the nba players know the rule and you gotta obey them. their fault.

he must be a good flopper to hop off of one foot and fly 5 feet into the score's table lol.

Regardless if he flopped or not, a hit is a hit.

[han.]

The Suns becoming an elite team in the west has several factors. Good fortune of Steve Nash staying healthy. Mike D'Antoni changing how the Suns played which led to more possessions and better stats from all around. The league being easier to get fouls called in. I would say Amare has nothing to do with their success as they were fine 2 seasons ago without him.

Dwayne Wade is a product of the NBA catering its referees to star players. Dwayne Wade has to get the most BS calls in the NBA every night. If you put any good SG aside from Wade and Kobe with Shaq they would have won those titles too. Dwayne Wade just might bet he most overrated star in the NBA today.

i couldn't agree more.
i'm still wondering why amare made the all nba first team this season.
dfake is the overrated star in the nba today. ever see him use that spin move of his? how the refs don't see that as a travel still baffles me.

Oh please, we all know the Warriors just went crazy with the three-point shooting throughout their entire playoff run and the Mavs wouldn't have stopped it unless they sent DeSagana Diop to sit on Baron Davis' face.

which might explain why the mavs are interested in kobe? he is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league afterall. oh and his offensive output isn't too shabby either.

Spurs only have the title this year because they played the choking Cavs, a team which is from, like you said, the Eastern Conference that is a joke.

Someone please just get KG the ring he deserves.

actually, i don't think the cavs choked, it's more like the spurs owned lebron in the face. i guess that's what happens when you don't have a jumpshot yet. and the cavs are basically nothing offensively without lebron. you have to score to win afterall.

i second that, garnett definitely deserves a ring. he needs to get out of minnesota.

and can somebody please explain why in the WORLD the t'wolves would want trash like harris, terry, stackhouse, diop, or dampier in exchange for kevin garnett? please, somebody, anybody explain this to me because it doesn't make sense to me. although a team with dirk and kg would be amazing to watch and almost impossible to stop, it's never ever going to happen.

i'm glad the spurs played the suns physically. i'm sick of their "we're-smaller-than-everybody-so-please-protect-us-refs" attitude. everybody except steve nash. the guy's a soldier.

[DOVAHKIIN]

i couldn't agree more.
i'm still wondering why amare made the all nba first team this season.
dfake is the overrated star in the nba today. ever see him use that spin move of his? how the refs don't see that as a travel still baffles me.
which might explain why the mavs are interested in kobe? he is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league afterall. oh and his offensive output isn't too shabby either.
actually, i don't think the cavs choked, it's more like the spurs owned lebron in the face. i guess that's what happens when you don't have a jumpshot yet. and the cavs are basically nothing offensively without lebron. you have to score to win afterall.

i second that, garnett definitely deserves a ring. he needs to get out of minnesota.

and can somebody please explain why in the WORLD the t'wolves would want trash like harris, terry, stackhouse, diop, or dampier in exchange for kevin garnett? please, somebody, anybody explain this to me because it doesn't make sense to me. although a team with dirk and kg would be amazing to watch and almost impossible to stop, it's never ever going to happen.

Amare made it because there were no other good centers to fill in the void. Yao Ming was injured for quite a bit this year, and Shaq didn't even play half the season. Mavs aren't gonna make a huge change by getting Kobe to repair for last year's mistakes. If they do, the front office is losing it. Then again it is Mark Cuban...

Oh the Cavs did choke. I think it was game 4 or something where they made 3 of 19 from beyond the arc, and they were open looks too. Not to mention Sideshow Bob's brilliant finger roll that missed by a mile.

[Atron]

I'm not going to say what Amare and Diaw did was unfair because it is in the rules (though I seriously hope the league changes it this summer) but in my mind if Raja bell can Clothesline Kobe and knock him flat on the floor and only get suspended for one game and just Amare and Diaw stepping onto the court justifies a one game suspension as well the league seriously needs to fix the rules

[mofo]

^
the league's rules are fine the way it is.
blame amare for being stupid and getting off the bench.
if he's smart he won't make that mistake again.
either way the spurs were gunna win it anyways. to be the world champs u have to play defense, clamp down on defense in the last few minutes of the game. phoenix is still trying to outscore their opponents all the time. defense wins championships.

[epark1281]

Atron,
That's right, they should revise the rules. Perhaps they should go in the other direction and make the rules a little stricter. I say a 3 game suspension for excessive contact.

[DOVAHKIIN]

^
the league's rules are fine the way it is.
blame amare for being stupid and getting off the bench.
if he's smart he won't make that mistake again.
either way the spurs were gunna win it anyways. to be the world champs u have to play defense, clamp down on defense in the last few minutes of the game. phoenix is still trying to outscore their opponents all the time. defense wins championships.

It's stupid to come to your teammate's aid when there's an altercation on the court?

[plusone]

It's stupid to come to your teammate's aid when there's an altercation on the court?

...thus enlarging the conflict?