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What Is Hmong? Well, Hmong Is Me. Our Existence is Slowly becoming Known.

#1 User is offline   Avang08 

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Posted 30 May 2008 - 08:05 PM

Hmong is an Asian ethnic group in the mountainous regions of southern China.
There, they remain one of the largest sub-groups in the Miao (Chinese:苗族) minzu.
Beginning in the 18th-century, Hmong groups began a gradual mass migration to Southeast Asia for reasons both political and economic.
As a result, Hmong currently live in several countries in Southeast Asia, including northern Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, and Myanmar-Burma.
In Laos, a significant number of Hmong/Mong people fought against the communist-nationalist Pathet Lao during the Secret War.
When the Pathet Lao took over the government in 1975, Hmong/Mong people were singled out for retribution, resulting
in many fleeing to Thailand.
Thousands of these refugees were resettled in Western countries, including the United States, Australia, France,
French Guiana, and Canada.
Others were returned to Laos under United Nations-sponsored repatriation programs.
Around 8,000 Hmong/Mong refugees remain in Thailand.


Laos


The "Secret War"

Main article: Laotian Civil War
In the early 1960s, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) began to recruit the indigenous Hmong people in Laos to join fighting the Vietnam War, named as a Special Guerrilla Unit led by General Vang Pao. Over 80% of the Hmong men in Laos were recruited by the CIA to join fighting for the "Secret War" in Laos. The CIA used the Special Guerrilla Unit as the counter attack unit to block the Ho Chi Minh Trail, the main military supply route from the north to the south. Hmong soldiers put their lives at risk in the frontline fighting for the United States to block the supply line and to rescue downed American pilots. As a result, the Hmong suffered a very high casualty rate; more than 40,000 Hmong were killed in the frontline, countless men were missing in action, thousands more were injured and disabled.
General Vang Pao led the Region II (MR2) defense against NVA incursion from his headquarters in Long Cheng, also known as Lima Site 20 Alternate (LS 20A).[23] At the height of its activity, Long Cheng became the second largest city in Laos, estimated at 300,000, with 200,000 ethnic Hmong and 100,000 people of other ethnic backgrounds. Long Cheng was a micro-nation operational site with its own bank, airport, school system, officials, and many other facilities and services in addition to its military units. Before the end of the Secret War, Long Cheng would fall in and out of General Vang Pao's control.
The Secret War began around the time that the U.S. became officially involved in the Vietnam War. Following the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam in 1975, the Lao kingdom was overthrown by the communists and the Hmong people became targets of retaliation and persecution. While some Hmong people returned to their villages and attempted to resume life under the new regime, thousands more made the trek to and across the Mekong River into Thailand, often under attack. This marked the beginning of a mass exodus of Hmong people from Laos. Those who did make it to Thailand generally were held in squalid United Nations refugee camps. Nearly 20 years later, in the 1990s, a major international debate ensued over whether the Hmong should be returned to Laos, where opponents of their return argued they were being subjected to persecution, or afforded the right to immigrate to the U.S. and other Western nations.

those Hmong who did not flee Laos, somewhere between two and three thousand were sent to re-education camps where
political prisoners served terms of 3-5 years. Many Hmong died in these camps, after being subjected to hard physical labor and harsh conditions. Thousands more Hmong people, mainly former soldiers and their families, escaped to remote mountain
regions - particularly Phou Bia, the highest (and thus least accessible) mountain peak in Laos. Initially, some Hmong
groups staged attacks against Pathet Lao and Vietnamese troops while others remained in hiding to avoid military
retaliation and persecution. Spiritual leader Zong Zoua Her rallied his followers in a guerilla resistance movement called Chao Fa
(RPA: Cauj Fab). Initial military successes by these small bands led to military counter-attacks by government
forces, including aerial bombing and heavy artillery, as well as the use of defoliants and chemical weapons.
Small groups of Hmong people, many of them second or third generation descendants of former CIA soldiers, remain
internally displaced in remote parts of Laos, in fear of government reprisals. Faced with continuing military operations against them by the government and a scarcity of food, some groups have begun coming out of hiding, while others have sought asylum in T
hailand and other countries.
Throughout the Vietnam War, and for two decades following it, the U.S. government stated that there
was no "Secret War" in Laos and that the U.S. was not engaged in air or ground combat operations in Laos. In the late
1990s, however, several U.S. conservatives, alleging that the Clinton administration was using the denial of this covert war to justify a repatriation of Thailand-based Hmong war veterans to Laos, urged the U.S. government to acknowledge the existence of
the Secret War and to honor the Hmong and U.S. veterans from the war. On May 15, 1997, in a total reversal of U.S. policy, the U.S. government acknowledged that it had supported a prolonged air and ground campaign against the NVA and VietCong.
It simultaneously dedicated the Laos Memorial on the grounds of Arlington National Cemetery in honor of the Hmong and
other combat veterans from the Secret War.

Hmong Refugees in Laos:




HMONG is ME.
It's sad to learn the history of the hmong people.
We have no country, and some say we have no flag.
But the hmong people are trying to do
their best. We are a representation of us.

Honestly I have never knew about our culture,
but I recently learned about the history and
culture of HMONG.
I feel really strong about being Hmong.

I hope everyone who reads this
will know what hmong is, and support
us in our efforts to become KNOWN.

Thanks for reading.
-A P R I L

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#2 User is offline   _beBiiyOo_ 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 05:42 AM

never heard of it before but very interesting!

question:
can you call HMONG people chinese people?
have you ever been there?

Change is the only constant in fashion.
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#3 User is offline   asdf.BLAHH 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 02:35 PM

i'm hmong too (:
just like you, i never really knew too much about our culture.
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#4 User is offline   songielove 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 02:47 PM

Yes, i am Hmong myself and i feel very grateful that i have just finally and recently learned of our past.
I learned about our people from a personal perspective-- parents, relatives etc.
But i finally learned from the outside perspective from my Asian American Studies professor..
And it made me feel great.
We are a strong and determined group of people who fought for what was right.
We were tired and battered, but we were deeply strong.
I am proud of the education system nowadays, finally adding the word HMONG to the texts.
It is about time that our experiences, courageousness, and struggles are to be heard and shared.
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#5 User is offline   lavenderluv 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 03:02 PM

!!wow!!
i got so much information about the hmong culture..
did u guys know? dat hmong people came from a long line of chinese pplz?
mah sis said, "we're decendents of the mongols." nd she showed me this site
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MbwmuN2aiE4
go on it hmong pplz!! if u listen really well, you will kinda understand what their talking about...i think their talking in hmong green so, i understand perfectly well...
so cool!!

(from daoherbt quote) " it is said that due to the fact that we are being chased, the elder have decided to change the language a little so when faced the enemies, they won't be able to tell that we are hmong... "
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#6 User is offline   touche` 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 03:08 PM

QUOTE (_beBiiyOo_ @ May 31 2008, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
never heard of it before but very interesting!

question:
can you call HMONG people chinese people?
have you ever been there?


No, you never call Hmong people Chinese people. It's like saying, Can I call Chinese people Taiwanese people? nope. Even though we do have a history with the Chinese people, we are still different by blood. I still have lots to learn about Hmong people! <33


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#7 User is offline   Ketamine 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 05:31 PM

QUOTE (desperation. @ May 31 2008, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, you never call Hmong people Chinese people. It's like saying, Can I call Chinese people Taiwanese people? nope. Even though we do have a history with the Chinese people, we are still different by blood. I still have lots to learn about Hmong people! <33

well actually in china the hmong minority people are pretty well intergrated into the general chinese population that they consider themself as chinese citizen first before hmong identity. those hmong minority people in the cities speaks different dialects of chinese language and holds a chinese passport and have chinese names.



BTW: chinese and taiwanese people are the same people,same blood.

QUOTE (lavenderluv @ May 31 2008, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
!!wow!!
i got so much information about the hmong culture..
did u guys know? dat hmong people came from a long line of chinese pplz?
mah sis said, "we're decendents of the mongols." nd she showed me this site
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MbwmuN2aiE4
go on it hmong pplz!! if u listen really well, you will kinda understand what their talking about...i think their talking in hmong green so, i understand perfectly well...
so cool!!

(from daoherbt quote) " it is said that due to the fact that we are being chased, the elder have decided to change the language a little so when faced the enemies, they won't be able to tell that we are hmong... "


hmongs are not descendented from the mongols as shown by Genetic studies


http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/3/725#FIG2


Archeological and historical studies have shown that proto–H-M populations were associated with the Neolithic cultures that were found in the Middle Reach of the Yangtze River, i.e., Daxi Culture (5,300–6,400 years before present [YBP]) and Qujialing Culture (4,600–5,000 YBP), and the San-Miao tribes in Central-southern China



Some 40% of haplogroup C H-M samples have the motif 16189–16298–16327, which will be referred to as C5. It is almost completely absent in the northern East Asian populations and seems to be the major branch of haplogroup C in the southern East Asians such as Dai, Zhuang, and Lahu (Yao et al. 2002b; Yao and Zhang 2002).


More than half (54%) of F mtDNAs belong to the F1a lineage, which is the predominant F type in H-M and other southern East Asians (Kivisild et al. 2002).



R9c, a newly defined haplogroup in this study, is observed only in 4 H-M samples. This rare haplogroup is found only in southern China and Southeast Asia. By including an additional 11 R9c samples (Oota et al. 2002; Yao et al. 2002a; Tajima et al. 2003; B.W, unpublished data), the age of R9c is estimated as 29,600 ± 16,300 YBP, appearing to be a deep lineage distributed in southern East Asia. Other R9 lineages, F1b, F1c, F2a, and F3 are seen in some populations with low frequencies.






In contrast, it is absent or occurs as singletons in the other H-M populations. Haplogroup A6, which was observed in the Northern Han, Japanese, and Korean populations, occurs in some H-M populations as singletons. N9 consists of Y and N9a. Only one sample in the MHN belongs to Y, and N9a occurs in some populations with low frequency.








Population Cluster as Revealed by PCA



Figure 2 presents the PCA results conducted in H-M and other East Asian populations. Northern East Asians (NEA) and southern East Asians (SEA) are clearly separated by PC2 (accounting for 12.2% of the total variation), and the H-M populations fall entirely into the southern group.



In figure 3, NEAs (Altai, Northern Han, and Northern T-cool.gif and SEAs (A-A, Daic) are largely divided into two different clusters, and almost all H-M populations grouped with the SEA cluster. All the A-A populations formed one single branch, departing from H-Ms and Daics. It was noted that MHN lies between NEAs and SEAs, being closer to SEA populations than to NEAs.

The difference between NEAs and H-Ms is nearly fivefold higher than that between H-Ms and SEAs, suggesting that H-Ms bear much closer affinity with SEAs than with NEAs.

The lineages that are prevalent in the SEA represent the majority (63%) of the mtDNA gene pool in the H-M populations, ranging from 45% (MHN) to 90% (YDB). If we remove the "uncertain" lineages, 70% H-M mtDNAs belong to the southern lineages ranging from 49% (MHN) to 100% (YDB).











The northern lineage in hmong is only about 27%:

The haplogroups prevalent in the NEA account for only 27% of the H-M mtDNAs, ranging from 0% to 47%.


When haplogroup D is removed from the analysis, the frequency of northern lineages in H-M decreases from 27% to 14%, ranging from 0% to 27%.





This observation, together with the close affinities with SEAs revealed by average FST, phylogenetic tree analysis, and PCA, suggests southern origins of H-M populations.



QUOTE
In summary, we demonstrated that southern lineages account for the majority of the H-M mtDNA gene pool, a finding consistent with the southern origins of the H-M populations. The higher ratio of northern lineages observed in the Miao people suggests that they had more contacts with the northern East Asians. Our systematic study of H-M mtDNA diversity provides genetic evidence for the origin and migration of the H-M populations and the data for further investigation of the genetic structure of East Asians.


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#8 User is offline   hungrycollegeboy 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 05:43 PM

I'm Hmong too!!

However, I go to university in Socal where it's not very popular for Hmong people to live. People often mistake me for Chinese or Vietnamese. But then when I tell them that I'm Hmong, they give me the " blink.gif " look. sweatingbullets.gif

And then I try to explain it and just becomes a mess.

Also a very cool thing that I found out:

Hmong language and Mandarin has some similarities. Of course this is probably because we branched out from them. I have a Chinese roommate and he calls friends "Pong-yo" which is very similar to Hmong's "Phooj Ywg (PongYoo)".

And then there's more:

Here's how the two different languages say "I don't know."
"Wo bu gi dau" - Mandarin
"Kuv tsis paub" - (pronounced Ku chi pau) Hmong
^ I think it's pretty similar


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#9 User is offline   Ketamine 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 06:50 PM

QUOTE (hungrycollegeboy @ May 31 2008, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm Hmong too!!

However, I go to university in Socal where it's not very popular for Hmong people to live. People often mistake me for Chinese or Vietnamese. But then when I tell them that I'm Hmong, they give me the " blink.gif " look. sweatingbullets.gif

And then I try to explain it and just becomes a mess.

Also a very cool thing that I found out:

Hmong language and Mandarin has some similarities. Of course this is probably because we branched out from them. I have a Chinese roommate and he calls friends "Pong-yo" which is very similar to Hmong's "Phooj Ywg (PongYoo)".

And then there's more:

Here's how the two different languages say "I don't know."
"Wo bu gi dau" - Mandarin
"Kuv tsis paub" - (pronounced Ku chi pau) Hmong
^ I think it's pretty similar

you might see some similarities but thats because there are a lot of chinese loan words in hmong language. hmong language is grouped under Hmong-Mien and chinese is under its own group,sino-tibetan. totallty different.
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#10 User is offline   kor3an__ 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 06:54 PM

I knew of Hmong people..
but thanks for giving it into detail =P
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#11 User is offline   Miss Bouakham 

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Post icon  Posted 31 May 2008 - 08:06 PM

QUOTE (hungrycollegeboy @ May 31 2008, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
However, I go to university in Socal where it's not very popular for Hmong people to live. People often mistake me for Chinese or Vietnamese. But then when I tell them that I'm Hmong, they give me the " blink.gif " look. sweatingbullets.gif

And then I try to explain it and just becomes a mess.

i feel you
sometimes when i'm too lazy to go into all that details, i'd just reply "i'm from laos" laugh.gif


anyway, i'm glad that the education system is finally incorporating our role in history smile.gif

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#12 User is offline   chocopocky 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 10:12 PM

Hey you guys, I FREAKING LOVE HMONG PEOPLE! Some of the most important history in the whole world are in this country., I respect y'all.

Sorry, I made no sense. :/
It was late at night.

But I truly respect Hmong history despite knowing very little about it.

I apologize for sounding like an idiot.

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#13 User is offline   Ketamine 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 10:27 PM

QUOTE (chocopocky @ Jun 1 2008, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey you guys, I FREAKING LOVE HMONG PEOPLE! Some of the most important history in the whole world are in this country., I respect y'all.

in what country? what Some of the most important history?
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#14 User is offline   hungrycollegeboy 

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 11:02 PM

QUOTE (chocopocky @ May 31 2008, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey you guys, I FREAKING LOVE HMONG PEOPLE! Some of the most important history in the whole world are in this country., I respect y'all.


Lol, we don't really have a country to call our own. *sigh* Kinda sad just thinking about it.
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#15 User is offline   kei. 

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 12:40 AM

oh i read about hmong before while im doing research on china history.
how do you guys pronounce hmong? i was stuck at it when i was presenting my project

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#16 User is offline   hungrycollegeboy 

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 12:49 AM

^ Lol, it's pronounced how it's spelled.

Well, it's more like saying "Mhong."

Start off with the "M", add the "H" sound and, it's downhill from there sweatingbullets.gif

Or just try doing the H sound and the M sound at the same time lol sweatingbullets.gif
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#17 User is offline   13miracles 

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 01:05 AM

I learn about Hmong people when I was in elementary school in Vietnam, since from what i know lots of Hmong people live in Northern Vietnam.
In Vietnam we pronounce Hmong as HuhMong
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#18 User is offline   kei. 

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 08:14 AM

hungrycollegeboy: lol, i was trying to pronounce like how you mentioned and my mum was shocked.
me:" mmm-hong? hm-ong? uhm-ong? mm-hong?hm-ong?..."
my mum to my dad: '... look at your daughter.. she's talking ailen language to the computer.. i think we better ban her from using com." xD

^i guess i'll just pronounce it as HuhMong instead lol

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#19 User is offline   LoveItLiveIt 

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 10:40 AM

I'm Hmong as well. A lot of my American friends like hearing about the Hmong history. I think it's cool and interesting and Hmong kids should know about their heritage's past. It just sad that many don't know about it and are loosing their native tongue. But anyhoo, alls cool and good ;]
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#20 User is offline   touche` 

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 10:55 AM

QUOTE (Ketamine @ May 31 2008, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
well actually in china the hmong minority people are pretty well intergrated into the general chinese population that they consider themself as chinese citizen first before hmong identity. those hmong minority people in the cities speaks different dialects of chinese language and holds a chinese passport and have chinese names.


I don't call them Chinese but I call them Hmong-Chinese. It's like Hmong-Americans or Hmong-Thai, or Hmong-Laotians.

And for the Chinese and Taiwanese, I'm just using as an example and that is the closes relation that I know. Hmong people are ALMOST Chinese but they're not. Taiwanese are Chinese people but I've hear majority Taiwanese in this forum don't like to call themselves "Chinese," and Yes, I do have a friend who is Taiwaense who don't like to be considered as "Chinese."

I remember reading somewhere that Chinese people named Hmong people, the "Miao" tribe because we sound like "Cat" to them. I don't think we need a land to "represent" Hmong to other people. We, the Hmong people, should represent ourselves to others.


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