[Tuffcore]

The Beijing Olympics are only days away and inevitably, the Chinese government is going to come under tremendous scrutiny and criticism during the duration of the events. China is obviously using the games to showcase the success of their two-decade economic transformation and promote the triumphs of modified socialism.

Have they done enough and/or have they gone too far? Many people are left behind and rapid development has left the countryside ravaged and destroyed. Rivers have been devastated and fresh water supply are dwindling. On the other hand, standards of living have never been better and economic growth is second to none. China is prosperous. China is allowing people to live the American Dream. China is becoming a major super power in the world.

In the meantime, the Tibetans are not closer to a free state and are fighting strongly for independence. Protests and rallies are growing restless and violence has replaced peaceful diplomacy. So much so, Chinese civilian deaths are on the rise and out numbering Tibetan deaths in certain instances.

Which leaves me with a few questions,

How do 20+ Soompiers feel about the Chinese government in general?
Do you feel China has improved their human rights situation?
What is your take on Tibet?
Are we even going to see Beijing's skyline in the daytime through that thick cloud of smog?





(It would be great to get perspectives from people living in Beijing or have lived elsewhere in China.)

[MiddleMan]

How do 20+ Soompiers feel about the Chinese government in general?
Do you feel China has improved their human rights situation?
What is your take on Tibet?
Are we even going to see Beijing's skyline in the daytime through that thick cloud of smog?
(It would be great to get perspectives from people living in Beijing or have lived elsewhere in China.)

The government is still Red - only difference: Red China trying to make money like U.S. Otherwise, what can they do? Turn out like Russia?
Human rights - no. It will only get better when all the 'needed to kill' are eradicated.
Tibet - Free Tibet.
Seeing skyline of Tibet - haven't seen any pictures yet. so, idk.
Getting perspective from living there: I think Soompi is a banned site from China. Last time I heard something on the radio, farmers were getting killed.

[.moony.]

^ It's hard to comment when we don't live there and we aren't actually in the government to know what they are doing. What we read here is from the US Perspective, so I'd like to read stuff from Chinese newspapers (published in China, not some propaganda in the US.)
Because like Vietnamese, people in the US spread all the stuff about human rights being violated in Vietnam, but people who live in Vietnam are pretty much perfectly happy about our rights there, we only worry about earning money. Only when I came to the US that I see "outsiders complaining about things we insiders don't worry about."
What I know is from a relative who goes to China very often due to his being a diplomat, that China has a tendency to "expand" without much regard to human right or other smaller countries' right. In fact, recently, China just claimed that an island that has been Vietnam's property for many many many many years, with hundreds/thousands of vietnamese living there for as long as they can remember, as theirs. My relative is actually going to China often these days to talk to their diplomats about that. x.x
So at first I thought all these news about China being bad are false, Im a Viet and I have always liked China cuz we are like siblings! But after this I was very saddened by the fact mentioned above. I have realized that there is actually some truth in what was being said about China here in the US, not all, but some definitely.
Now I just can't imagine if i was a Tibetian and going through all this. The United Nations has been asking china repeatedly to get out of Tibet but I suppose there isn't much else being done.

I don't want to see the spirit of the Olympics being used for these kinds of political agenda, whether by H.Clinton or Chinese government. I think every country can be a little selfish when it comes to expansion and the benefits of its citizens, but there should be a limit to how they shouldn't make others suffer in order to gain land, resources, or w/e from others.
Just my wishful thinking because we all know how governments are like geez.

[Yubumsuk]

China and Korea share this in common: on the one hand, they're desperate for approval and recognition but, on the other hand, they have no idea what does and doesn't impress westerners. What China and Korea don't have in common is a collectivist nationhood in which most of society is able to enjoy the benefits of everyone's hard work. Korea's Olympics were in many ways a celebration of Korea's nascent democracy and emerging first-world status. Apart from the boxing fiasco and a few jokes about dog soup (and drug scandals that didn't directly concern Korea), Korea succeeded remarkably well in projecting a positive image for a host nation so generally clueless about the rest of the world. It was both a Korean celebration and an international celebration. China's Olympics most certainly won't be. A few things, I'm sure, will come off as being very impressive. But I think much of this will be overshadowed by the epic proportions of all of China's self-congratulatory BS, and China's downright cowardice at having any open interaction between peoples of different nations right in the centre of China's universe. China's political agenda will at best be ignored, and at worst will be derided and lampooned in ways that thin-skinned, habitually deceitful Chinese nationalists have no stomach for.

In the end I think that while the 1988 Olympics and 2002 World Cup will be remembered for the sporting events themselves as well as the enthusiastic hosts, China's Olympics will be remembered for just that: China, a land of big shows and an even bigger brother.

[chickaroo]

My take on Tibet:

First off, how will Tibet survive economically when free? Most of the people there are either monks or farmers.. Look what happened when part of Mongolia became free? Most of the Tibetans are poor, before communism, commoners were controlled by the Dahlai Lama, and they weren't being treated that well, as far as I'm concerned. A lot of Tibetans aren't educated as well. They are easily brainwashed to boycott.

Second of all. Tibet and China have been together for many many years, thousands! Let's compare that with USA. What would USA do if California decided they wanted to become free? After all, we were taken away from Mexico. Do you think USA would agree? If Californians start boycotting, do you think USA would put them in concentration camps? Think about it...

Plus, you know how much China spends on maintaining temples for Tibetans every year?
I don't understand why so many people hate China so much. I'm so prideful in the country my parents were born in, but didn't people see how fast the Chinese army and Chinese people reacted to the earthquake? I mean, compared to USA's hurricane Katrina!

If Tibet becomes free, China will be pressured to give up Taiwan also. Soon, China would split into small little countries just like the Soviet Union. THEN, maybe the westerners would be happy. Because China scares them. White people don't like to be threatened, you know.

The government is still Red - only difference: Red China trying to make money like U.S. Otherwise, what can they do? Turn out like Russia?
Human rights - no. It will only get better when all the 'needed to kill' are eradicated.
Tibet - Free Tibet.
Seeing skyline of Tibet - haven't seen any pictures yet. so, idk.
Getting perspective from living there: I think Soompi is a banned site from China. Last time I heard something on the radio, farmers were getting killed.

Russia is actually doing quite well right now. Moscow is a city with the most billionaires. I believe communism is a great transition between dirt poor ---> capitalism.

[Yubumsuk]

My take on Tibet:

First off, how will Tibet survive economically when free? Most of the people there are either monks or farmers.. Look what happened when part of Mongolia became free? Most of the Tibetans are poor, before communism, commoners were controlled by the Dahlai Lama, and they weren't being treated that well, as far as I'm concerned. A lot of Tibetans aren't educated as well. They are easily brainwashed to boycott.

Second of all. Tibet and China have been together for many many years, thousands! Let's compare that with USA. What would USA do if California decided they wanted to become free? After all, we were taken away from Mexico. Do you think USA would agree? If Californians start boycotting, do you think USA would put them in concentration camps? Think about it...

Plus, you know how much China spends on maintaining temples for Tibetans every year?
I don't understand why so many people hate China so much. I'm so prideful in the country my parents were born in, but didn't people see how fast the Chinese army and Chinese people reacted to the earthquake? I mean, compared to USA's hurricane Katrina!

If Tibet becomes free, China will be pressured to give up Taiwan also. Soon, China would split into small little countries just like the Soviet Union. THEN, maybe the westerners would be happy. Because China scares them. White people don't like to be threatened, you know.




Russia is actually doing quite well right now. Moscow is a city with the most billionaires. I believe communism is a great transition between dirt poor ---> capitalism.

Um, Taiwan isn't part of PRC and is doing very well without it. Maybe, if the Chinese have their way, no one currently residing in any lands that China ever encompassed or claimed will be allowed to vote. Then, maybe Chinese nationalists would be happy. Because voting scares them. Chinese nationalists don't like to be voted out, you know.

[papabear]

How do 20+ Soompiers feel about the Chinese government in general?

It's bad.

Do you feel China has improved their human rights situation?

No.

What is your take on Tibet?

Should not have been invaded.

Are we even going to see Beijing's skyline in the daytime through that thick cloud of smog?

Maybe when things fall apart.

[gomu-band]

1. How do 20+ Soompiers feel about the Chinese government in general?

-I applaud Deng Xiaoping for economic reform and industrializing China, but on the other hand, political freedom is weak and subject to government control. But like I have been saying before, this type of government might be the only way for China to truly be unified under one rule. If China was a democracy, I think we would see a replication of India where nothing gets done easily since there are so many differing parties and factions. It's a tricky dilemma....

Do you feel China has improved their human rights situation?

-No, any type of dissent against the CCP will be punished. CCP's number one fear is demonstrations and mass mobilization of the people against the government. It's sheer survival at this point.

What is your take on Tibet?

-No comment on this. It all depends on what Tibetans want. If they want to become independent, I support it. If they don't, I support that as well.

Are we even going to see Beijing's skyline in the daytime through that thick cloud of smog?

-From what i've seen on the BBC, probably not. The smog is ridiculous. Even though the government is doing everything they can to get rid of it such as restricting car use and shutting down factories, I believe this is only a temporary solution since image is the primary goal for the Olympics. After that, I can't really see the CCP continuing to reduce pollution and smog on their agenda.

[MiddleMan]

I don't understand why so many people hate China so much.

You are assuming here. Where does it say anyone HATEs China? If you read my opionion as 'I hate China' you're 100% wrong. I only implied it needs more work. And this is just my 'perspective' as the first thread suggested. Maybe it's my succint replies that led you believe it. If so, I apologize. But no one is Hating China here.

First off, how will Tibet survive economically when free? Most of the people there are either monks or farmers.. Look what happened when part of Mongolia became free? Most of the Tibetans are poor, before communism, commoners were controlled by the Dahlai Lama, and they weren't being treated that well, as far as I'm concerned. A lot of Tibetans aren't educated as well. They are easily brainwashed to boycott.

I don't think this is a good argument in the 21st Century. There are many poor countries around the world, and just because of their economic problems, a better and well to do country should not overtake them.

Second of all. Tibet and China have been together for many many years, thousands!

Because what you stated, and my lack of knowledge of China-Tibet relationshiop, I looked up the history of Tibet from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#Independence_proclaimed

"Since 1951, Tibet has been under China's control. According to a 1951 agreement between the Tibetan government and the PRC, Dalai Lama-ruled Tibetan area was supposed to be a largely autonomous region of China."

And, I know Wiki isn't everything, since being written by western influenced writers, I would like to ask you to refer a source stating Tibet was part of China for 'thousands' of years.

Plus, you know how much China spends on maintaining temples for Tibetans every year?
I don't understand why so many people hate China so much. I'm so prideful in the country my parents were born in, but didn't people see how fast the Chinese army and Chinese people reacted to the earthquake? I mean, compared to USA's hurricane Katrina!

China spending money on Tibet - Since when 1951? If so, it should be since being under China's control since 1951. But, that doesn't mean it should conquer and mistreat them. http://www.savetibet.org/tibet/humanrights/index.php

And just because you spend money on a nation doesn't give you the reason to exploit them and conquer, if this was the case, U.S, and Russia be the only two countries left on earth.

I am glad to see you having pride in your own country. Everyone should have it. And I am also astounded and proud that Chinese government had acted swiftly in helping their fellow countrymen. U.S. should learn from them.

If Tibet becomes free, China will be pressured to give up Taiwan also. Soon, China would split into small little countries just like the Soviet Union. THEN, maybe the westerners would be happy. Because China scares them. White people don't like to be threatened, you know.

It's not China's expansion, it's their goverment they are afraid of. Many people who are non-communists feel threatened by communist-expansion. You would be too, if your sons and neighbors' boys were killed by communists in Vietnam War and Korean War.

Russia is actually doing quite well right now. Moscow is a city with the most billionaires. I believe communism is a great transition between dirt poor ---> capitalism.

City with the most billionaires? That's not something to be proud of. That means there is more gap between the rich and the poor. And, maybe Russia is good right now, let's say. But, do you know what went on in between the 70's to year 2000? No food, people had to line up just to buy 1 loaf of bread while the government officials were dining on caviar and wine.

To reiterate my perspective: I don't hate China, it just needs more work.

[be_mellow]

How do 20+ Soompiers feel about the Chinese government in general?
I can't answer this I don't live there right now.

Do you feel China has improved their human rights situation?
If you're comparing it from 20 years ago then yes, but as of now it's a slow progress.

What is your take on Tibet?
No comment.

Are we even going to see Beijing's skyline in the daytime through that thick cloud of smog?
Maybe. It did say their pollution have gotten better according to Yahoo.


I'm not going to say that there are people who 'hate' China, maybe dislike. Americans focused too much on America's media and only the negative news about China. There's always two sides of a story, therefore if you see the American side, why not listen to China's version as well? And don't tell me "Oh they're making stuff up, only America is reporting the real things." There's something called Propaganda people. Don't forget you can't believe 100% what the media says.

[hun_wun_gal]

How do 20+ Soompiers feel about the Chinese government in general?
As i don't live there i can't comment if it's bad or not i have relatives there i don't see them screaming they want to live anywhere else, then again they're not in the countryside and not in the countryside so i can't comment there. I'm not as narrowminded to say they're censoring the media and call it "brainwashing" since media everywhere are "selective" about the media they release. Although i hear alot of corruption i'm not doubting corruption happens it's a developing country not a democracy i'm not surprised stuff like this doesn't happen. I've seen better and i've seen worse, if Beijing has the capabilities to host the Olympics i don't see a problem.

I've heard how the government has bulldozed through people's livelihoods, it's a poor decision to sacrifice them in order for the Olympics to go ahead, although i know no amount of compensation will recover this the government was still wrong to kick people out. At least in London there is alot of wasteland that can be used -.-

Do you feel China has improved their human rights situation?
No. Plus i doubt China will just because people have asked them to. Hopefully if they are to rise as a super power i'm sure they will be recognised when they have a better human rights situation, as everyone is constantly saying how China COULD be the next super power i doubt any country can without better human rights.

What is your take on Tibet?
I don't live in Tibet it's not up to me and in short, i have better things to worry about. I'm sorry for their possible situation but then it's like saying all places that were conquered should now be given up just because it is morally wrong nowadays. So in terms of WW2 situation Poland should reunite.

Are we even going to see Beijing's skyline in the daytime through that thick cloud of smog?
I've read accounts from people who have lived there they say iot gets misty at certain times of the day such as early in the morning and certain wheather conditions. Again i don't live there i don't know, you might see the skyline if you're lucky?

[Sweetraindrops]

i dun care bout dem.. i wanna know whoo gina WIN all the game..

you guy know when olympic stturt..

Which leaves me with a few questions,

How do 20+ Soompiers feel about the Chinese government in general?
Do you feel China has improved their human rights situation?
What is your take on Tibet?
Are we even going to see Beijing's skyline in the daytime through that thick cloud of smog?
(It would be great to get perspectives from people living in Beijing or have lived elsewhere in China.)

[MiddleMan]

^Yes,
And here's the whole schedule of the games:
(You could've googled it)

http://en.beijing2008.cn/schedule/

[SouthernBelle82]

The Beijing Olympics are only days away and inevitably, the Chinese government is going to come under tremendous scrutiny and criticism during the duration of the events. China is obviously using the games to showcase the success of their two decade transformation and promote the triumphs of modified socialism.

Have they done enough and/or have they gone too far? Many people are left behind and rapid development has left the countryside ravaged and destroyed. Rivers have been devastated and fresh water supply are dwindling. On the other hand, standards of living have never been better and economic growth is second to none. China is prosperous. China is allowing people to live the American Dream. China is becoming a major super power in the world.

In the meantime, the Tibetans are not closer to a free state and are fighting strongly for independence. Protests and rallies are growing restless and violence has replaced peaceful diplomacy. So much so, Chinese civilian deaths are on the rise and out numbering Tibetan deaths in certain instances.

Which leaves me with a few questions,

How do 20+ Soompiers feel about the Chinese government in general?
Do you feel China has improved their human rights situation?
What is your take on Tibet?
Are we even going to see Beijing's skyline in the daytime through that thick cloud of smog?





(It would be great to get perspectives from people living in Beijing or have lived elsewhere in China.)

Well as a fellow communist I am disappointed they've done some uncommunist things such as their strict "no mistakes or die" ways and the fight with the Tibetans and there's so much other issues as well. If you want to see another side to China check out the Travel Channel's China week specials. They've been great! On edit their "no mistakes or die" ordeal it seems to be more traditional than anything political.

^ It's hard to comment when we don't live there and we aren't actually in the government to know what they are doing. What we read here is from the US Perspective, so I'd like to read stuff from Chinese newspapers (published in China, not some propaganda in the US.)
Because like Vietnamese, people in the US spread all the stuff about human rights being violated in Vietnam, but people who live in Vietnam are pretty much perfectly happy about our rights there, we only worry about earning money. Only when I came to the US that I see "outsiders complaining about things we insiders don't worry about."
What I know is from a relative who goes to China very often due to his being a diplomat, that China has a tendency to "expand" without much regard to human right or other smaller countries' right. In fact, recently, China just claimed that an island that has been Vietnam's property for many many many many years, with hundreds/thousands of vietnamese living there for as long as they can remember, as theirs. My relative is actually going to China often these days to talk to their diplomats about that. x.x
So at first I thought all these news about China being bad are false, Im a Viet and I have always liked China cuz we are like siblings! But after this I was very saddened by the fact mentioned above. I have realized that there is actually some truth in what was being said about China here in the US, not all, but some definitely.
Now I just can't imagine if i was a Tibetian and going through all this. The United Nations has been asking china repeatedly to get out of Tibet but I suppose there isn't much else being done.

I don't want to see the spirit of the Olympics being used for these kinds of political agenda, whether by H.Clinton or Chinese government. I think every country can be a little selfish when it comes to expansion and the benefits of its citizens, but there should be a limit to how they shouldn't make others suffer in order to gain land, resources, or w/e from others.
Just my wishful thinking because we all know how governments are like geez.

With your comment on the UN, China and Tibet the Chinese are likely to not listen to them. Look at Israel, Palestine and the UN. In the late 60s (maybe 68?) the UN told Israel to stop occupying Gaza and to this day Israel's government is still there with their military. So just a look at how it's going to be with China, Tibet and the UN. The UN can't do anything to China if they don't so I wouldn't expect them to listen sadly. Personally I think Tibet should be free since they as a people seem to really want it.

My take on Tibet:

First off, how will Tibet survive economically when free? Most of the people there are either monks or farmers.. Look what happened when part of Mongolia became free? Most of the Tibetans are poor, before communism, commoners were controlled by the Dahlai Lama, and they weren't being treated that well, as far as I'm concerned. A lot of Tibetans aren't educated as well. They are easily brainwashed to boycott.

Second of all. Tibet and China have been together for many many years, thousands! Let's compare that with USA. What would USA do if California decided they wanted to become free? After all, we were taken away from Mexico. Do you think USA would agree? If Californians start boycotting, do you think USA would put them in concentration camps? Think about it...

Plus, you know how much China spends on maintaining temples for Tibetans every year?
I don't understand why so many people hate China so much. I'm so prideful in the country my parents were born in, but didn't people see how fast the Chinese army and Chinese people reacted to the earthquake? I mean, compared to USA's hurricane Katrina!

If Tibet becomes free, China will be pressured to give up Taiwan also. Soon, China would split into small little countries just like the Soviet Union. THEN, maybe the westerners would be happy. Because China scares them. White people don't like to be threatened, you know.




Russia is actually doing quite well right now. Moscow is a city with the most billionaires. I believe communism is a great transition between dirt poor ---> capitalism.

Here in the U.S. if California wanted to become their own country as of right now they can't because after the Civil War the radical republicans made sure that no state could try to do what the South did with the civil war. So it would probably have to be a Constitutional amendment or something. Oh and on concentration camps remember WWII with the German and Japanese Americans? I don't think people hate China but just have opinions and concerns. I'm a communist myself and love China too but there are some disagreements even I have with them.

You are assuming here. Where does it say anyone HATEs China? If you read my opionion as 'I hate China' you're 100% wrong. I only implied it needs more work. And this is just my 'perspective' as the first thread suggested. Maybe it's my succint replies that led you believe it. If so, I apologize. But no one is Hating China here.


I don't think this is a good argument in the 21st Century. There are many poor countries around the world, and just because of their economic problems, a better and well to do country should not overtake them.


Because what you stated, and my lack of knowledge of China-Tibet relationshiop, I looked up the history of Tibet from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#Independence_proclaimed

"Since 1951, Tibet has been under China's control. According to a 1951 agreement between the Tibetan government and the PRC, Dalai Lama-ruled Tibetan area was supposed to be a largely autonomous region of China."

And, I know Wiki isn't everything, since being written by western influenced writers, I would like to ask you to refer a source stating Tibet was part of China for 'thousands' of years.


China spending money on Tibet - Since when 1951? If so, it should be since being under China's control since 1951. But, that doesn't mean it should conquer and mistreat them. http://www.savetibet.org/tibet/humanrights/index.php

And just because you spend money on a nation doesn't give you the reason to exploit them and conquer, if this was the case, U.S, and Russia be the only two countries left on earth.

I am glad to see you having pride in your own country. Everyone should have it. And I am also astounded and proud that Chinese government had acted swiftly in helping their fellow countrymen. U.S. should learn from them.


It's not China's expansion, it's their goverment they are afraid of. Many people who are non-communists feel threatened by communist-expansion. You would be too, if your sons and neighbors' boys were killed by communists in Vietnam War and Korean War.


City with the most billionaires? That's not something to be proud of. That means there is more gap between the rich and the poor. And, maybe Russia is good right now, let's say. But, do you know what went on in between the 70's to year 2000? No food, people had to line up just to buy 1 loaf of bread while the government officials were dining on caviar and wine.

To reiterate my perspective: I don't hate China, it just needs more work.

A lot of Communist's today, including myself, are doing it not by force etc. but by being involved in politics like we have here in the States since the Party was in started here in 1919. Look at Latin America as well. So many countries are going more socialist now days. Oh and with the Vietnam and Korean wars maybe the U.S. shouldn't have gotten involved? The Vietnam war was an illegal invasion by the U.S. and with the Korean war it was a U.S. invasion butting in another country's civil war. Would we as a country have liked that if France or Britain got involved in our civil war?? Speaking of the Korea conflict try to find the film "They Chose China." Oh and with Russia perhaps you missed studying the Great Depression of the 20s here in the U.S.? If it wasn't for us Communist's in the 20s working to get all the union groups together we wouldn't have a lot of the FDR programs we have today.

[MiddleMan]

A lot of Communist's today, including myself, are doing it not
by force etc. but by being involved in politics like we have
here in the States since the Party was in started here in 1919.
Look at Latin America as well. So many countries are going more
socialist now days. Oh and with the Vietnam and Korean wars
maybe the U.S. shouldn't have gotten involved? The Vietnam war
was an illegal invasion by the U.S. and with the Korean war it
was a U.S. invasion butting in another country's civil war.
Would we as a country have liked that if France or Britain got
involved in our civil war?? Speaking of the Korea conflict try
to find the film "They Chose China." Oh and with Russia perhaps
you missed studying the Great Depression of the 20s here in the
U.S.? If it wasn't for us Communist's in the 20s working to get
all the union groups together we wouldn't have a lot of the FDR
programs we have today.

Since 1919 in U.S., who have Communists placed as a President or
even as a candidate? Nearly 100 years. No one. No person in
right mind thinks Communism is a sane idea. What doctor or
scientist or hard working citizen would agree to forcibly share
his wealth with someone...let's say...who works for fast food restaurants?

The testing period for Marxist-Lenin's Communism was done. And
it utterly failed. Even with Stalin, the killing machine, tried
his best, arduously by eradicating his non-followers. Still his
citizens were unwilling to follow his propaganda filled agenda.

Perhaps I had not studied what? Perhaps you had not studied
about Communism under Stalin.
*Stalin had killed and exiled to Siberia millions of Kulaks in
the late 20's. In the 30's, Stalin launched Great Purge, again
executing and exiling another millions of his citizens to
Siberia where many more died of disease and hunger.
Still he found more citizens not following his idea, Communism,
therefore, killing more. I know you want to call this 'Stalinism.'
If you do so, I would call it Misleading Propaganda

And yes, Capitalism is risky, especially for people who are less
motivated. It has its ups and downs. But when people put their
effort into Capitalism satisfaction follows. And if I had to
choose between suffering the Great Depression or to suffer exile
into Siberia or even being killed, I would choose the first
choice.

For the Vietnam war, did you know Ho Chi Mihn's first choice of
government was Capitalism and not Communism? He came to United
States and had asked Harry Truman to support his cause in
bringing independence to Vietnam against Japan and France.
Unfortunately for Ho Chi Minh and U.S., France was a good ally
to the States, therefore, he was turned away by Truman and Ho
Chi Minh had to seek help from his second choice.

For the Korean War, I have had copious education on Korean War
from my own country, from my father, who once had a Communist's
bullet in his rump, and from my uncles and aunts and
Granmothers. And it was not a civil war.
I ask you this: if the Berlin Wall was still standing, and if the East and
West Germany had a war today, you would call that a Civil War?
I don't think so.

You want me to watch a propaganda movie? No thank you. I read
enough of your Communist propaganda pamphlets when they rained
down in Seoul long ago. I read about several communist leaders and
your ideas already.

And I see that you're spreading more propaganda about 20's and
union organizations. I've been a Union member for very long
time, and I've never encountered "Communism" in Union's contracts,
news or articles. And my Union, nor I have not killed or exiled anyone to
Siberia nor anwhere so unfit to live.

Next thing you're going to state is that Democrats are
Communists. I don't think so. I would rather bet China will
turn into a socialist country and do bettern than Russia who is
grasping to its last thread of Communism.

Communist in United States only exist because of Freedom of
Speech in this fair and just nation. You would never be able to
have a Capitalism Meeting with George Washington's portrait and
hang the Old Glory in Russia or China. Communism only exists in
this country because Capitalism is open-minded and knows
every sane mind spurns Communism in this good country.

[Sweetraindrops]

^Yes,
And here's the whole schedule of the games:
(You could've googled it)

http://en.beijing2008.cn/schedule/

good stuuff mang.. wat channeel..

[aznbebeh]

Now the US and the rest of the world wants to make EVERY communist country a really really bad country. With all this negative attention on China, isn't there a reason behind maybe?

Oh Yeah! Because the western world wants to hide their faulties. Because the climate change is our fault. Because we treated the African people not even as human beings.

YEAH! - But lets forget all of this! Because China is a really bad guy TODAY! Who the hell cares about what happened 100 years ago anyways???

Well, China has been like it is for thousands of years. Suddenly the US and UN is going to come and invade the country looking like angels sent from some paradise faaar away and go like "you got no reason to be treated like this!" Can't really say there's any reasons though, but the western world is obviously trying to hide their dark past...

As for Tibet - don't remember how long ago BUT Tibet had the chance to join UN as a free country. If they did, China could not invade them like they've done. Oh, the holy Dalai Lama - were there some economic reasons behind the choice you made?

Just a last small note - Tibet and Dalai Lama never asked for a independent Tibet. There's only a small group of activists who wants "free Tibet". Dalai Lama has clearly stated that they do not want a independent Tibet - only freedom to practice their religion, which I think China should "allow".

[SouthernBelle82]

I had to put this in two parts so here's part one-

Since 1919 in U.S., who have Communists placed as a President or
even as a candidate? Nearly 100 years. No one. No person in
right mind thinks Communism is a sane idea. What doctor or
scientist or hard working citizen would agree to forcibly share
his wealth with someone...let's say...who works for fast food restaurants?

There are lots of communist's like myself who are very involved in their local communities. Name me any third party who has been successful in this country. The last third party who was successful in this country was the Republican party. I even argue the only reason why they were successful in the first place was because of the radical republicans after the civil war and before that Abraham Lincoln and how popular he was as a presidential candidate and a president. If he wasn't so popular and successful before his time came to a close sadly I don't think the Republicans would've lasted all these years. Our system of government has always been a two party system whether you're talking about the federalist and anti-federalist or the federalist's and the democratic republicans or the democratic republicans and the whigs or the republicans and the democrats. Where are the other political parties? Where's the Green's? The Socialist's? The Independents? Ralph Nader barely touches the political spectrum in presidential elections and he's never invited to any political debates between the main candidates. Are you aware of a scientist by the name of Albert Einstein? He was a socialist and worked for socialist causes. Helen Keller was a well known socialist and she was a founder of the ACLU and helped other disabled children through her adulthood. And you also are believing the myth about socialism. Socialism is about sharing. We have that here. See the Social Security program. That's a perfect example with how socialism works. It is a socialist program. The Communist Party during the Depression of the 20s was a major factor in a lot of programs FDR started getting approved and to the point where they are now. Every time you get the mail at your house you're using socialism. Every time you borrow a book from the library you're doing socialism. Every time you see a firefighter putting out the fire of a building you're seeing socialism in action. Did you go to a public school for your secondary and primary education? You're using socialism. What about a community college? Did you take any classes there? That's socialism. So there are plenty of influences of socialism here in the States alone.

The testing period for Marxist-Lenin's Communism was done. And
it utterly failed. Even with Stalin, the killing machine, tried
his best, arduously by eradicating his non-followers. Still his
citizens were unwilling to follow his propaganda filled agenda.

How can you say that? If there is one communist in the world the testing period isn't over. As long as there is one person who believes in socialism and strives for it than it's still there. Just because it may not be here or there doesn't mean you take your marbles and go home does it? I don't know about you but I don't. Why do you think every communist out there likes Stalin? You are aware the first people he killed and tortured was fellow comrades right? Apparently you didn't know that to bring up this point you did. Comrades stud up and weren't afraid to say he wasn't doing socialism and what did they get in return? Torture and eventually death. So please get off that my happy poopoo with Stalin. I bet you won't have any sympathy for the comrades he killed since it doesn't suit your opinion.

Perhaps I had not studied what? Perhaps you had not studied
about Communism under Stalin.
*Stalin had killed and exiled to Siberia millions of Kulaks in
the late 20's. In the 30's, Stalin launched Great Purge, again
executing and exiling another millions of his citizens to
Siberia where many more died of disease and hunger.
Still he found more citizens not following his idea, Communism,
therefore, killing more. I know you want to call this 'Stalinism.'
If you do so, I would call it Misleading Propaganda

If you don't follow the Communist Manifesto you aren't a Communist. Plain and simple. I don't care if someone is a Trotsky or a Maoist. If they didn't themselves follow the Communist Manifesto than they weren't Communist's. Plain and simple. I love how you only point to Stalin but not to any other socialist out there who has done good things in the name of socialism like Helen Keller, Web DuBois, Charlie Chaplin, Ho Chi Minh and so on. There are good and bad socialist's and always will be. I dare you to point to me to any political party past or present who has been 100% perfect. Bet you can't do it. And again with the Stalin my happy poopoo and ignoring the fact he killed and tortured fellow comrades.

And yes, Capitalism is risky, especially for people who are less
motivated. It has its ups and downs. But when people put their
effort into Capitalism satisfaction follows. And if I had to
choose between suffering the Great Depression or to suffer exile
into Siberia or even being killed, I would choose the first
choice.

I dare you to go to Latin America and tell them that about capitalism without them calling you a gringo. Satisfaction? Are you kidding me? How about what's going on in our own country with capitalism? What a joke.

For the Vietnam war, did you know Ho Chi Mihn's first choice of
government was Capitalism and not Communism? He came to United
States and had asked Harry Truman to support his cause in
bringing independence to Vietnam against Japan and France.
Unfortunately for Ho Chi Minh and U.S., France was a good ally
to the States, therefore, he was turned away by Truman and Ho
Chi Minh had to seek help from his second choice.

Actually from Wikipedia-

Ho led the Viet Minh independence movement from 1941 onward, establishing the communist-governed Democratic Republic of Vietnam in 1945 and defeating the French Union in 1954 at Dien Bien Phu. He led the North Vietnamese in the Vietnam War until his death; six years later, the war ended with a North Vietnamese victory, and Vietnamese unification followed. He was named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century,[1] while the former capital of South Vietnam, Saigon, was renamed Ho Chi Minh City in his honor.

Link- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh

Still doesn't take away the fact the Vietnam conflict where the U.S. is concerned was wrong. How would you have liked it if France or Britain got involved in our civil war and took the side of the South?

Now the US and the rest of the world wants to make EVERY communist country a really really bad country. With all this negative attention on China, isn't there a reason behind maybe?

Oh Yeah! Because the western world wants to hide their faulties. Because the climate change is our fault. Because we treated the African people not even as human beings.

YEAH! - But lets forget all of this! Because China is a really bad guy TODAY! Who the hell cares about what happened 100 years ago anyways???

Well, China has been like it is for thousands of years. Suddenly the US and UN is going to come and invade the country looking like angels sent from some paradise faaar away and go like "you got no reason to be treated like this!" Can't really say there's any reasons though, but the western world is obviously trying to hide their dark past...

As for Tibet - don't remember how long ago BUT Tibet had the chance to join UN as a free country. If they did, China could not invade them like they've done. Oh, the holy Dalai Lama - were there some economic reasons behind the choice you made?

Just a last small note - Tibet and Dalai Lama never asked for a independent Tibet. There's only a small group of activists who wants "free Tibet". Dalai Lama has clearly stated that they do not want a independent Tibet - only freedom to practice their religion, which I think China should "allow".

Ah good point about the Dalai Lama. And of course the U.S. is going to make a communist country look bad. The US has always been an imperialist nation since the founding of the country even before then as colonies and just living here in general before colonies. Communism is supposed to be against imperialism (which is why one of many reason's China isn't totally communist currently) so of course the US is going to be against it. Check out "The War on Democracy" by John Pilger. I found it on Google Video.

[SouthernBelle82]

I also wanted to add how can the claim be made that capitalism is for democracy when there are only two political parties who are involved in the system? How many people know who Brian Moore is or Cynthia McKinney? No cheating now. And it's not capitalism that gives you the freedom to speak. It's the U.S. Constitution that does. Other countries have that same rule as well. Even in China there are protest's that happen. And how is it really freedom of speech if you have to get a permit before you can protest on public land? The only thing capitalism does is make chaos so companies can bankrupt people with their prices. Look at Venezuela and what happened to their country and many other Latin American countries when they had rightwing governments who were pro-capitalist's. In Colombia their rightwing pro-capitalist government kills union workers and people who are in the lead of the union movement. To Middleman I do hope you find "Confessions of an Economic Hitman." Also look at what's going on in Iraq right now. It's because of capitalist greed. Oh and Middleman are you aware of what Walmart is doing now? They are encouraging their workers to not vote democratic because of the possibility of their employees getting a union. They're the world wide symbol of capitalism and they don't allow freedom of speech in their company. Oh and Middleman you better not watch any political ads, or any political speeches or the conventions when they happen soon because you said you didn't want to watch propaganda....

[Meenuh]

i like the idea of communism. reminds me of a utopian society. the only problem is that i believe that it will never work. people are too selfish. look at all the pain and suffering countries went through as a communist government. there's still someone that's controlling the people saying who gets what and what everyone should do and they reap the benefits while the people starve and die. this is just what i've come up with based on the books i've read.

or maybe i just might not know wth i'm talking about. i'm not too into politics and what not anyways. just thought i'd share. lol. don't flame me please for my lack of knowledge.