[papabear]

uno?! haha. =P

Anyways.... my relationship is being too serious.. and it's literally scaring me.
Since we've practically planned out our future together, I guess he thinks that it's okay to do whatever he wants now..
He knows that I don't want it.. yet he's so AGRESSIVE.
I see if he really accepts my decision, but he just goes ahead anyways, and honestly....
I don't really know what to do >.<

Uh, if he's not respecting the limits that you've set, and is taking advantage, then you should learn how to use the SLAP. You need to stand up for yourself--if you don't, then you're just asking to be used for the rest of this "relationship."

If a guy takes you for granted--he could be insincere when he's "planning your future together"--who's to say that he wasn't lying in order to get in your pants? And even if he's "sincere," taking you for granted is not the same as loving and respecting you.

So you should reconsider if this is the right guy. Don't give in because you think you love him or because you want to hold on to him. Marriage and commitment require mutual respect, and if you don't love yourself rightly, you can't love others, even though you can let them take advantage.

[Tuffcore]

uno?! haha. =P

Anyways.... my relationship is being too serious.. and it's literally scaring me.
Since we've practically planned out our future together, I guess he thinks that it's okay to do whatever he wants now..
He knows that I don't want it.. yet he's so AGRESSIVE.
I see if he really accepts my decision, but he just goes ahead anyways, and honestly....
I don't really know what to do >.<

So, he wants sex but you want to wait until marriage?

This is a tough one because a man has needs. If you don't give him what he needs, he'll go find it somewhere else. I advise against dumping him to find another man because quite frankly, no man can wait unless it's a man of hardcore Christian beliefs or a man in his 40's suffering from E.D.

[papabear]

^Come on, it's better to be alone than to be valued purely as a sex toy. (And besides, there is no guarantee that he won't get tired and go somewhere else eventually.)

[Tuffcore]

^Come on, it's better to be alone than to be valued purely as a sex toy. (And besides, there is no guarantee that he won't get tired and go somewhere else eventually.)

So you're advocating no marriage at all? Who's to say that a husband, or a wife for that matter, won't get tired and go somewhere else eventually?

It's better to have been valued as a sex toy than to have been valued for nothing at all.

[papabear]

So you're advocating no marriage at all? Who's to say that a husband, or a wife for that matter, won't get tired and go somewhere else eventually?

It's better to have been valued as a sex toy than to have been valued for nothing at all.

If it's clear that the other person is selfish and only concerned about self-gratification, then there is no rational basis for expecting him to stay around. Those who are good, truly love, and understand what commitment is do not morph into immoral monsters overnight.

So let us tell the oppressed and victims of sex trafficking: "well at least you were valued as instruments--it's better than no one valuing you"? The kind of value you are talking about is not the same as care, and in both cases someone isn't being cared for by someone else--but at least there's no exploitation in the latter case. That makes a big difference.

At least Kant wasn't off completely--there is something to be said for treating someone in accordance with his or her dignity.

[Tuffcore]

If it's clear that the other person is selfish and only concerned about self-gratification, then there is no rational basis for expecting him to stay around. Those who are good, truly love, and understand what commitment is do not morph into immoral monsters overnight.

Sex is an integral part of a healthy relationship. The real monster is the partner who forces the other partner into abstinence. Thus, destroying the relationship for selfish reasons. Everyone is selfish to a fault and even love is in itself, a selfish ulterior emotion.

[papabear]

Sex is an integral part of a healthy relationship. The real monster is the partner who forces the other partner into abstinence. Thus, destroying the relationship for selfish reasons. Everyone is selfish to a fault and even love is in itself, a selfish ulterior emotion.

Well, if that's what you think, good luck to you.

[Tuffcore]

Well, if that's what you think, good luck to you.

Well, i don't really think that way. I just wanted to see what you would say. I digress.

[papabear]

Well, i don't really think that way. I just wanted to see what you would say. I digress.

If there are no intrinsic goods other than pleasure, namely family and children, to which sex is ordered, then one could try to argue the point that whoever witholds is being selfish. But if sex is tied to family, children, and by extension marriage and commitment, then there is a standard to which one can appeal.

[j79]

A couple nights ago, I hung out with a few people, and we were all drinking. As the night went on, I found myself holding hands with a girl that I'm attracted to. She stayed the night (mainly because, we didn't want her to get pulled over and into an accident) and while nothing happened, we did sleep in each others arms (very briefly ) I think, if I had like 3 more beers, I would have probably tried to kiss her. But, I was sober enough to think, "Maybe it's just the alcohol..."

I'm not sure how she feels about me. I'm not sure how much she remembers from the night? She wasn't falling over herself -- but I do know she was really tired.

The worst part is she goes back to Korea at the end of this month for the summer. I think she'll be back for school, but I could be wrong...?? I don't even know...

Any recomendations? Anyone have a good way to figure out how much she remembers from the night and if it meant anything? I'm sure asking, "hey, how wasted were you that night?" isn't a great question.

Or, should I just ignore the whole thing because alcohol was involved? That's what I've done so far -- because I'm not sure if she DOES remember and maybe is embarrassed??

[hangook/korea]

Anyways.... my relationship is being too serious.. and it's literally scaring me.
Since we've practically planned out our future together, I guess he thinks that it's okay to do whatever he wants now..
He knows that I don't want it.. yet he's so AGRESSIVE.
I see if he really accepts my decision, but he just goes ahead anyways, and honestly....
I don't really know what to do >.<

Sex is like dating. You can't date somebody if only one person wants to go out.

Any recomendations? Anyone have a good way to figure out how much she remembers from the night and if it meant anything? I'm sure asking, "hey, how wasted were you that night?" isn't a great question.

Who knows how she felt?
The drinks cancel everything out.
Ask her out on a date.

[j79]

Sex is like dating. You can't date somebody if only one person wants to go out.
Who knows how she felt?
The drinks cancel everything out.
Ask her out on a date.

I'm planning on doing that. Just wondering how I should approach the previous night? Or, should I just ignore it all together?

[chairmanK]

I'm planning on doing that. Just wondering how I should approach the previous night? Or, should I just ignore it all together?

^ She woke up in your bed next to you, right? Did you ask her, "How are you feeling?" or "Would you like breakfast?", or at least smile and tell her, "Good morning"? Did she seem to be happy to be in your bed? Did she act emotionally distant or anxious or angry? How did she leave in the morning? My guess is that she totally expects you to know how she felt. If you weren't able to read her feelings, then you messed up. And if you ask her outright, you will only be admitting to her that you messed up and can't communicate, just like all of the other insensitive men, etc.

Whatever you do, don't start acting weird around her. Even if you're completely obsessing over her, don't let it show too much. That's creepy. Just spend time with her in the usual friendly way. But if she starts acting weird around you, you should probably just give up.

[Laxntiga]

Tuffcore, you da man.

Instead of thinking that she's holding out or she's being selfish, you are the one responsible for "leading" and escalating the relationship to a point where the other person (and yourself) is ready to have sex. Dont blame the girl.


Thats why I suggested using the line I got a warning for.

[Tuffcore]

If there are no intrinsic goods other than pleasure, namely family and children, to which sex is ordered, then one could try to argue the point that whoever witholds is being selfish. But if sex is tied to family, children, and by extension marriage and commitment, then there is a standard to which one can appeal.

Hmm i agree with you in principle but only within the case you have exemplified above. I feel that situations in real life however, are often the contrary to the black and white you layed out. Family, children, and marriage are usually intertwined with sex in a relationship. I get the feeling like YUNA! is in a relationship where her BF is very much a part of her family, friends, and social circle.

To some degrees and depending on the situation, abstaining from sex but sharing family and friends could be seen as being detrimental to the health of a relationship like having sex but withholding the partner from one's family and friends.

Any recomendations? Anyone have a good way to figure out how much she remembers from the night and if it meant anything? I'm sure asking, "hey, how wasted were you that night?" isn't a great question.

From my limited experience, women drink as an excuse to get slutty so they can blame their behaviour on the alcohol. The best follow up date would be to drink again. Get her alone this time and share your favorite wines and/or cocktails over dinner at your place (or somewhere quiet). Let her "release" herself again.

[clockwatcher]

uno?! haha. =P

Anyways.... my relationship is being too serious.. and it's literally scaring me.
Since we've practically planned out our future together, I guess he thinks that it's okay to do whatever he wants now..
He knows that I don't want it.. yet he's so AGRESSIVE.
I see if he really accepts my decision, but he just goes ahead anyways, and honestly....
I don't really know what to do >.<

Well, I know guys who 'plan futures together' all because they want to get into some girl's pants... well, that was mainly in high school but still.

If you don't want to have sex and he's being very agressive and you've set boundaries and he still doesn't adhere to them, then you have to decide what you want: either give in or get out.

Any recomendations? Anyone have a good way to figure out how much she remembers from the night and if it meant anything? I'm sure asking, "hey, how wasted were you that night?" isn't a great question.

Well, it's only been a couple of nights, not too many, I hope? Simple ask her if she slept well, if she got home okay and all that... and you can even make a joke about how she drooled (or not), took up space etc depending on how friendly you are and what kind of personality she has.

[papabear]

Hmm i agree with you in principle but only within the case you have exemplified above. I feel that situations in real life however, are often the contrary to the black and white you layed out. Family, children, and marriage are usually intertwined with sex in a relationship. I get the feeling like YUNA! is in a relationship where her BF is very much a part of her family, friends, and social circle.

To some degrees and depending on the situation, abstaining from sex but sharing family and friends could be seen as being detrimental to the health of a relationship like having sex but withholding the partner from one's family and friends.

The two activities are not co-equal. If one gets along with the SO's family and friends, then the question is why isn't he taking the proper and immediate steps to solidifying the relationship and ties through marriage? Sex needs to be contextualized within marriage, since its immediate purpose is the generation of children and hence the building up of the family. It's the separation of sex from marriage that deprives one of the objective standards by which one can judge how serious someone is about the relationship.

And if the guy has shown that he doesn't keep it in his pants with other women, or isn't living up to his responsibilities with respect to any children that may be the issue of such a relationship, then one should really question whether he is the right sort of guy, instead of relying upon emotion and oxytocin, which tell one nothing about his character. Judgment is required.

[j79]

^ She woke up in your bed next to you, right? Did you ask her, "How are you feeling?" or "Would you like breakfast?", or at least smile and tell her, "Good morning"? Did she seem to be happy to be in your bed? Did she act emotionally distant or anxious or angry? How did she leave in the morning? My guess is that she totally expects you to know how she felt. If you weren't able to read her feelings, then you messed up. And if you ask her outright, you will only be admitting to her that you messed up and can't communicate, just like all of the other insensitive men, etc.

Whatever you do, don't start acting weird around her. Even if you're completely obsessing over her, don't let it show too much. That's creepy. Just spend time with her in the usual friendly way. But if she starts acting weird around you, you should probably just give up.

Actually, she didn't wake up next to me in bed. We stayed downstairs. Nothing serious happened. It was all very brief. I'm going to just ask her out again and see she reacts around me.

The reason for the question is that I'm just going on personal experience. When I drink, I become the outgoing, extremely friendly, talkative guy (as opposed to the quiet, shy guy...) About three years ago, I was talking to this girl and the next day, she told everyone I was hitting on her (which I wasn't...) So, I know how easy it is to mis-understand actions or words said while someone is buzzed/drunk...

I posted the question to see if anyone had any experience with how to handle the "follow up". LOL. Anyways, thanks everyone for your insight.

From my limited experience, women drink as an excuse to get slutty so they can blame their behaviour on the alcohol. The best follow up date would be to drink again. Get her alone this time and share your favorite wines and/or cocktails over dinner at your place (or somewhere quiet). Let her "release" herself again.

Hah! I lived next door to four girls that got drunk every weekend just for that reason. Man, the stories I have...the things I saw. *shudders* But, that's a good suggestion!! I'll think of some places to take her out to. Thanks!

[chairmanK]

The two activities are not co-equal. If one gets along with the SO's family and friends, then the question is why isn't he taking the proper and immediate steps to solidifying the relationship and ties through marriage? Sex needs to be contextualized within marriage, since it's immediate purpose is the generation children and hence the building up of the family. It's the separation of sex from marriage that deprives one of the objective standards by which one can judge how serious someone is about the relationship.

^ I agree somewhat with papabear. If a guy is deeply involved in the relationship, to the point that he is welcome among his SO's family and friends, then he should take the next step and propose marriage. Marriage is a higher priority than sex. Sex can wait. You shouldn't be planning a future together with a SO who is more urgently interested in having sex than in getting married.

However, I disagree with papabear's belief that sex outside of marriage/procreation is wrong. Consensual sex is fine, as long as the people having sex don't get any silly ideas that having sex leads to marriage or happiness.

Disagreement about the desired level of sexual activity is a very good reason to dump a SO. (By now, nobody should be surprised that I mention the dumping option yet again.)

[chairmanK]

Actually, she didn't wake up next to me in bed. We stayed downstairs. Nothing serious happened. It was all very brief. I'm going to just ask her out again and see she reacts around me.

The reason for the question is that I'm just going on personal experience. When I drink, I become the outgoing, extremely friendly, talkative guy (as opposed to the quiet, shy guy...) About three years ago, I was talking to this girl and the next day, she told everyone I was hitting on her (which I wasn't...) So, I know how easy it is to mis-understand actions or words said while someone is buzzed/drunk...

Ah, okay. Now I understand why you're confused; it was one of those not-so-serious, ambiguous situations. You're probably fine. Don't ask her about what happened, and don't impute too much significance to it.

But maybe in the future, you should avoid getting drunk around the women you like? Usually men behave less attractively when they are tipsy, whereas women behave more attractively (up to a point; sloppy drunk is never cute). For me personally, you can tell when I think of a girl as "just a friend" (like a sister), because I am willing to get drunk with her and have crazy reckless fun, whereas I barely drink when I'm with a girl whom I regard as girlfriend-able (even though I might tell everyone that she's "just a friend" ^_~).