[questions987]

haha... all my ex's are married. one of them has a kid and another is pregnant.




1. he will likely offer to pay.
2. let him see the bill. ask how much you need to pitch in.
3. chivalry is common among most ethinicities. some just don't follow it as strictly as some others

note: some guys pay regardless. when i'm single, i pay for random meals regardless of who they are, as long as they're good friends.

Ex's being married - ugh (I ran into my ex father in law the other day) He went on and on about my ex's new wife and kid. He only shut up when I point blank asked him where my ex was living and if he had a real job yet. He was like - uhh the same place he was when you left (my house, that I left to him and he couldn't make the mortgage so mom and dad had to pay it). and no real job.

sometime's its good to hear about ex's moving on. I want the best for all of mine, just dont' want to hear about it.


~ and I know some guys pay, but why do guys insist on paying all the freaking time? I can't go out with my friend Scott and pay for anything. We had to draw up a contract for him to let me pay. He pays for food and I pay for entertainment. Ugh.

[watcher]

Ex's being married - ugh (I ran into my ex father in law the other day) He went on and on about my ex's new wife and kid. He only shut up when I point blank asked him where my ex was living and if he had a real job yet. He was like - uhh the same place he was when you left (my house, that I left to him and he couldn't make the mortgage so mom and dad had to pay it). and no real job.

sometime's its good to hear about ex's moving on. I want the best for all of mine, just dont' want to hear about it.


~ and I know some guys pay, but why do guys insist on paying all the freaking time? I can't go out with my friend Scott and pay for anything. We had to draw up a contract for him to let me pay. He pays for food and I pay for entertainment. Ugh.

bcuz... society has warped our minds into thinking that it's the right thing to do. for the sake of all that his holy and good, the man must feed her free of charge! you wouldn't want to break the balance that keeps the universe in balance, would ya? WOULD YAA?!?!?

[709394]

This is a three part Q:

1) When a guy is trying to pursue a girl (let's say in the early stages when both are still friends but e.g. the guy asks the girl out for coffee/lunch/dinner), does he usually pay for the girl?

2) How should the girl react to it? e.g. does she wait to see if he foots the bill and say sth like "oh u shouldn't have" or "let me pay you back".
Or should she sorta 'expect' him to pay anyway and just thank the guy afterwards?

3) Is there a difference in the way a guy courts a girl b/w different cultures? e.g. in Western cultures, both parties are known to go dutch and pay for themselves vs. Asian culture where the guy would pay for the girl? Would be great to hear responses from ppl of diff cultures and your experiences smile.gif


Thanks!

1) i wouldn't expect him to pay for me. I would offer to pay but if he is adamant about paying, then i will offer to treat him next time.

2) depends on the girl. Some of my friends are totally cool with guys paying for them and sorta expects it to happen. Me personally, I feel kinda uncomfortable and feel like I owe him something. Hence, I would offer to pay next time.

3) what? isn't it western culture that pays for girls and asian culture that goes dutch? LOL.

[Prot]

bcuz... society has warped our minds into thinking that it's the right thing to do. for the sake of all that his holy and good, the man must feed her free of charge! you wouldn't want to break the balance that keeps the universe in balance, would ya? WOULD YAA?!?!?

What watcher said. The society of the past held the belief that men were greater than women and that women were underlings of men and were to be fed, protected, given a dowry, etc etc like an animal. Women were just accessories of man. Women didn't work for anyone except the man she was married to.

In the society of today, where both genders work, where a greater equal pay and equal education and opportunities are given to women, chivalry does not apply for men only. The women can be chivalrous as well as they should now be considered equals of men. It doesn't have to be the guy that holds the door, a girl can do it too. It doesn't have to be the guy that drives a girl on a date, a girl can do it too.

Of course this doesn't mean that a man should stop being chivalrous, it just means that a man is not the only one that should be chivalrous. If the man is the only one chivalrous in a relationship, then that woman better be his slave just like back in the times where women didn't count as people and men ruled society.

Anyway, back to your questions:

1) When a guy is trying to pursue a girl (let's say in the early stages when both are still friends but e.g. the guy asks the girl out for coffee/lunch/dinner), does he usually pay for the girl?

My judgement is if it is under 5$ then I'll pay for it if we ordered together. If we ordered seperately, then damn she better pay for something that cheap. Of course if I said something along the lines of "I'll treat you to ____" when asking her to go out to eat somewhere, then of course I am paying.

2) How should the girl react to it? e.g. does she wait to see if he foots the bill and say sth like "oh u shouldn't have" or "let me pay you back".
Or should she sorta 'expect' him to pay anyway and just thank the guy afterwards?

Back to my paragraph before. If she sees the guy pay for the bill and not offer to pay back or not thank him and offer to pay next time (or doesn't even thank him assuming he already said he was going to treat her from the beginning so it was assumed he would pay), then she better be his slave or something. In other words, this girl is a leech if she does none of the above.

3) Is there a difference in the way a guy courts a girl b/w different cultures? e.g. in Western cultures, both parties are known to go dutch and pay for themselves vs. Asian culture where the guy would pay for the girl? Would be great to hear responses from ppl of diff cultures and your experiences smile.gif

I would say at this point in time, everyone shares the universal view of equality. With the advancements we have in networking, most of the world knows what is going on around the world and societies are being united.

As for my personal experience, I have had female friends treat me out to food and not take my money so I just treat them back.

[donporkuloin]

Situation 1: I went out with this girl last year. We have mutual friends, and our friends suggested we go out. The girl had a great time, but I didn't. I just didn't have fun. We went out again, but I wasn't feeling it. She's an ok person, but I don't think she's for me. I lost contact with her for a year, and we got back in contact. She suggested going to the bar and coming back to my place. I know what she wants... She always suggests hanging out when we're on the phone. If it were a group outing I'd be ok with it. But just the of us makes my feel somewhat uneasy. I saw one of our mutual friends on the bus too and when she mentioned our friends name she just smiled at me. Like I did something right or something?? Which made me feel worse, because I don't want to be with this girl.

With my horrendous luck with dating I tried getting into the idea that I could learn to like her, but I figure that's not fair to force myself to like someone. What should I do tell her or show I'm not interested without hurting her feelings?

Situation 2: I went out with this girl. Let's call her Jen. I gotta say we had a good time. One of my better dates. Oddly enough she was saying dating's not her top priority, but she wants to take things slow, etc. She wants me to meet some of her family, etc. Ok. She generally returns my call, texts, etc. All is good right? Wrong.. We talked on the phone and any time I try to setup time for us to hangout? She's always busy with something. Most of the time she says it's school. Most recently she's going to volunteer at a preschool. I keep thinking should I be patient or is she jerking my chain.

[watcher]

I went out with this girl last year. We have mutual friends, and our friends suggested we go out. The girl had a great time, but I didn't. I just didn't have fun. We went out again, but I wasn't feeling it. She's an ok person, but I don't think she's for me. I lost contact with her for a year, and we got back in contact. She suggested going to the bar and coming back to my place. I know what she wants... She always suggests hanging out when we're on the phone. If it were a group outing I'd be ok with it. But just the of us makes my feel somewhat uneasy. I saw one of our mutual friends on the bus too and when she mentioned our friends name she just smiled at me. Like I did something right or something?? Which made me feel worse, because I don't want to be with this girl.

With my horrendous luck with dating I tried getting into the idea that I could learn to like her, but I figure that's not fair to force myself to like someone. What should I do tell her or show I'm not interested without hurting her feelings?

my friend would always tell me to keep an open mind. he was probably really trying to tell me to just keep my options open, but i think the advice applies to other situations. there's no reason you have to like her from the start. you're certainly free to meet up with her and see how she's doing and see if anything has changed. define your own boundary of how far you're willing to go with her. i'd suggest you two hang out and not go back to your pad. keep it a simple dinner and maybe coffee afterwards. nothing to impair either of your judgments and more focus on making good conversation.

just see the girl a couple times. and if after you decide she's really not it, then so be it. probably by then, she'll have more explicity revealed her feelings as well, making it easier to talk about it with her.

have fun dood

Situation 2: I went out with this girl. Let's call her Jen. I gotta say we had a good time. One of my better dates. Oddly enough she was saying dating's not her top priority, but she wants to take things slow, etc. She wants me to meet some of her family, etc. Ok. She generally returns my call, texts, etc. All is good right? Wrong.. We talked on the phone and any time I try to setup time for us to hangout? She's always busy with something. Most of the time she says it's school. Most recently she's going to volunteer at a preschool. I keep thinking should I be patient or is she jerking my chain.

just poke here and there and leave it alone. as long as you keep the lines open, you give her a chance to come back to you if she wants to. you, on the other hand, will just leave the line and go reach for that next rod and throw a line elsewhere. or heck, just enjoy your singlehood while she does her thing and maybe gets back to you a while later.

[questions987]

Okay now I need advice.

**special note: I know I've been whining about being single but this person was not an option.

So I was out to lunch with a friend from work today. She and I hang out outside of the office and we were talking about our weekends. I brought up that I went out with my friend Scott. Well, she asked me about Scott and what was going on between us. I honestly told her that Scott was like my big brother and he was my best friend. Now here's where the advice comes in:

She looked at me and said "you can't be that naive" and I asked her what she was talking about. She basically responded with "He has a thing for you, you gotta know that." I don't know if it's true, I don't know if he has a thing for me, all I know is that he's my best friend and I can't see him in that sense.

Now that I think about it - he might, he's started to treat me differently lately; and I've always taken it as a closeness thats grown between us. We're both single and we spend our free time with each other. I tell him everything, the cute doctor/co-worker I'm in love with. The evil ex that wanted me back, everything. He treats me like I'm his best friend I guess, but it's different. He spoils me, everything I want - he gives in. I drag him to movies like Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants and he willingly goes because it makes me happy. I say I want to go to this super expensive restaurant because it looks good, and he'll take me and won't let me pay for it. He's going to the midnight showing of Twilight with me because I told him I wanted to go see it and he has to go. There are other indications - he started talking about relationship standards (2 years of friendship and we've never touched the topic). He'll tease me and then put his arm around me to say sorry (he not the cuddle type). I don’t know.

So I guess the question is:
A) Does he have a thing for me do you think?
B.) If he does - am I leading him on?
C) If he does have a thing for me - what do I do now? (He knows me well enough to know that the first sign of interest that I notice and I bolt, so I don't think he's consciously doing this if he is interested).

**so confusing, so so confusing.

[coreancc]

What watcher said. The society of the past held the belief that men were greater than women and that women were underlings of men and were to be fed, protected, given a dowry, etc etc like an animal. Women were just accessories of man. Women didn't work for anyone except the man she was married to.

In the society of today, where both genders work, where a greater equal pay and equal education and opportunities are given to women, chivalry does not apply for men only. The women can be chivalrous as well as they should now be considered equals of men. It doesn't have to be the guy that holds the door, a girl can do it too. It doesn't have to be the guy that drives a girl on a date, a girl can do it too.

Of course this doesn't mean that a man should stop being chivalrous, it just means that a man is not the only one that should be chivalrous. If the man is the only one chivalrous in a relationship, then that woman better be his slave just like back in the times where women didn't count as people and men ruled society.
...

You have a rather distorted perspective on the intention of chivalry as it originally existed. If you lived, say, in the Victorian age, the single most significant reason in your mind for being chivalrous would be because of a firm belief that woman are more valuable than men. The woman was higher, more refined - she was beautiful and elegant, a man was rough and base. Chivalry was an act of service, in much the same way a servant serves a Queen - the Queen is higher, more valuable, more esteemed, and the servant, who was below the queen, offered what he could to her. In the same way a loyal servant would stick by the Queen and want to serve the Queen out of their own free will, so a chivalrous man wanted to serve the woman in his life. He offered whatever he could to her. This is how it all started, anyway. Would anyone say that the Queen is somehow belittled by her servant because of his acts of service? Or would anyone think that the Queen was his slave? Somehow you have managed to turn the whole thing on its head... maybe it is because chivalry has not been immune from abuse.
If a society embraces an ideal, it won't be long before that ideal is abused, misused, and misunderstood by a certain percentage of society... give it enough time and corruption starts eating away at it. Still for all the times chivalry has been abused, I don't think it warrants the treatment you've given it.

[coreancc]

Okay now I need advice.

**special note: I know I've been whining about being single but this person was not an option.

So I was out to lunch with a friend from work today. She and I hang out outside of the office and we were talking about our weekends. I brought up that I went out with my friend Scott. Well, she asked me about Scott and what was going on between us. I honestly told her that Scott was like my big brother and he was my best friend. Now here's where the advice comes in:

She looked at me and said "you can't be that naive" and I asked her what she was talking about. She basically responded with "He has a thing for you, you gotta know that." I don't know if it's true, I don't know if he has a thing for me, all I know is that he's my best friend and I can't see him in that sense.

Now that I think about it - he might, he's started to treat me differently lately; and I've always taken it as a closeness thats grown between us. We're both single and we spend our free time with each other. I tell him everything, the cute doctor/co-worker I'm in love with. The evil ex that wanted me back, everything. He treats me like I'm his best friend I guess, but it's different. He spoils me, everything I want - he gives in. I drag him to movies like Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants and he willingly goes because it makes me happy. I say I want to go to this super expensive restaurant because it looks good, and he'll take me and won't let me pay for it. He's going to the midnight showing of Twilight with me because I told him I wanted to go see it and he has to go. There are other indications - he started talking about relationship standards (2 years of friendship and we've never touched the topic). He'll tease me and then put his arm around me to say sorry (he not the cuddle type). I don’t know.

So I guess the question is:
A) Does he have a thing for me do you think?
B.) If he does - am I leading him on?
C) If he does have a thing for me - what do I do now? (He knows me well enough to know that the first sign of interest that I notice and I bolt, so I don't think he's consciously doing this if he is interested).

**so confusing, so so confusing.

It's hard to say for sure without observing the guy myself... but your coworker has observed him, and she thinks he has a thing for you. From the information you've given, I'm going to say that maybe he does. However, he probably values the friendship, and also likes being around you. Knowing you would bolt if he showed interest, he is probably doing everything he can to suppress whatever it is he has for you. It gets tricky at this point, because we guys often put our feelings into compartments and then try not to think about them. So, it is very possible that he can't even say himself what exactly he feels for you - even though there is a part of him that knows, if it were any other way and it would be OK for him to pursue that sort of relationship with you... well, the barriers would come crashing down and he would be overrun with his real feelings.
If it gets to a point where you need to know, just sit him down and ask him about it. Be open and honest and talk it over with him.

[YUNA!]

It really sucks when the person you were so set on......... is actually.. ENGAGED. He didn't bother to tell me until a month later, through his MOM. And he's 30.......

[kdj72]

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but my parents drilled it into me that the man pays every time. I know this isn't in sync anymore with modern western culture, but it's something I'll never be able to shake, and I will go on to teach it to my son - if I ever have a son, lol. I can't speak for how other guys are... but, well, come to think of it my younger sister (24) went out with a guy who paid for everything first time. Anyway, if a guy pays for you, show heartfelt gratitude - but don't resist too much, if at all, and don't offer to pay him back. Make him feel like he just provided for you - it speaks to a base instinct in men. Of course, if you don't like him too much, give him a really hard time about it, haha.
Oh, and another thing they taught me was such things as holding the door for her, etc.

I believe that if a guy is really (and genuinely) interested in u, he'd do anything for u and make u feel like a princess! lol. I was brought up in a similar way to u, upholding the traditional way of thinking which i believe is a good thing I guess my ideal guy is someone who is just very gentlemanly and knows exactly what to do n how to treat a girl w/o being told - again, this prob boils down to the guy's family background, upbringing + past experiences. It's no doubt that because times have changed, ppl's way of thinking have also changed - my mum/grandma are shocked to learn abt how diff guys of today are compared to back in their times (where they were real gentlemen).
When you said to "make him feel like he just provided for you", i guess this may not be applicable in all cases cos some guys can be real a**es abt it and make u think u shouldn't 'expect' it from them.. are guys in today's society all like that in general (esp now that women are leveling up to them)? How would u know when to expect for them to pay/do other things for u etc and assume it's an understood matter?

[watcher]

I believe that if a guy is really (and genuinely) interested in u, he'd do anything for u and make u feel like a princess! lol. I was brought up in a similar way to u, upholding the traditional way of thinking which i believe is a good thing I guess my ideal guy is someone who is just very gentlemanly and knows exactly what to do n how to treat a girl w/o being told - again, this prob boils down to the guy's family background, upbringing + past experiences. It's no doubt that because times have changed, ppl's way of thinking have also changed - my mum/grandma are shocked to learn abt how diff guys of today are compared to back in their times (where they were real gentlemen).
When you said to "make him feel like he just provided for you", i guess this may not be applicable in all cases cos some guys can be real a**es abt it and make u think u shouldn't 'expect' it from them.. are guys in today's society all like that in general (esp now that women are leveling up to them)? How would u know when to expect for them to pay/do other things for u etc and assume it's an understood matter?

depends on the guy. best to assume that you're going to pay your half and offer to pitch in. you can probably pick up an idea of what type of guy he is based on your conversation. ask him about his hobbies or what he does with free time. see the expression he makes when he looks at the menu, or what he orders based on the list of options. whether he drinks wine, or water or soda, etc. you get the drift. these are all generalizations, but if you poke here and there, you can start to get an idea.

It really sucks when the person you were so set on......... is actually.. ENGAGED. He didn't bother to tell me until a month later, through his MOM. And he's 30.......

sounds kinda shady... haha... sorry : (

[tlydia]

Why? Just why? Why do some people who are in a serious relationship cheat? How can they cheat knowing that their significant other truly loves them and is someone they intend to spend eternity with? Doesn't a one night stand count as infidelity? How can a person cheat when their relationship was close to perfect and their significant other was everything they could ask for and so much more?

[papabear]

Sorry about what happened.

Some guys are horny, others are jerks--maybe he wanted to have some fun, or wanted something he wasn't getting.

But it needs to be said, without formal commitment, it's not infidelity or cheating--which is why people need to make it clear what they are looking for and expecting at the beginning, so they know where the other person stands, and they can then evaluate character.

[oie]

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[coreancc]

Sorry about what happened.

Some guys are horny, others are jerks--maybe he wanted to have some fun, or wanted something he wasn't getting.

But it needs to be said, without formal commitment, it's not infidelity or cheating--which is why people need to make it clear what they are looking for and expecting at the beginning, so they know where the other person stands, and they can then evaluate character.

I agree that people need to make it clear what they are looking for and expecting at the beginning, and that it is important to evaluate character. But, let me say, most relationships get to a point where it is understood that you are a couple. He is "her" guy, she is "his" girl. If your relationship gets to that point, then, in my book, it's cheating to do so much as a one night stand with anyone else. If you have some need that is not getting met, then end the relationship first. You aren't at the level of commitment of, say, engagement or marriage, but you are at the level where you expect that this person will be faithful to you for as long as they claim to be "yours".
I mean, come on, unless you are one cold hearted person, would you not feel betrayed in that situation?

Why? Just why? Why do some people who are in a serious relationship cheat? How can they cheat knowing that their significant other truly loves them and is someone they intend to spend eternity with? Doesn't a one night stand count as infidelity? How can a person cheat when their relationship was close to perfect and their significant other was everything they could ask for and so much more?

I'm so sorry, Lydia. I don't even have words..

[oie]

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[papabear]

Yeah, the dangers of a cash-based system of courtship/dating--originally it was meant to show that guys had enough money to support a family. But some men also got the idea that spending money on a women entitled them to something in return. (The cash-based system of dating, is also a setback for women, in comparison with previous customs where the woman had the power, not the man.)

From Front Porch to Back Seat: Courtship in Twentieth-Century America, by Beth L. Bailey

[watcher]

Yeah, the dangers of a cash-based system of courtship/dating--originally it was meant to show that guys had enough money to support a family. But some men also got the idea that spending money on a women entitled them to something in return. (The cash-based system of dating, is also a setback for women, in comparison with previous customs where the woman had the power, not the man.)

From Front Porch to Back Seat: Courtship in Twentieth-Century America, by Beth L. Bailey

man.. i buy you breakfast and i get no somethin-somethin from you. that stinks. we're so over dood.... so over...

[papabear]

man.. i buy you breakfast and i get no somethin-somethin from you. that stinks. we're so over dood.... so over...

"I'm not your ho. "