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Modern Society Seems Geared For The Young No place here for age and wisdom

#1 User is offline   coreancc 

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 12:39 PM

I'm writing this mostly to start discussion and spur some thought. smile.gif
As many here know, I recently transitioned out of my 20s and in to my 30s. I made some comment recently to an elderly man about how I still feel young (like say, 21), and that I don't really look forward to leaving my youth behind. He looked at me and said that he always wanted to grow old. He impatiently looked forward to the day when his hair turned white. I guess my face was covered with shock or something, because he felt the need to explain himself. He grew up in a "traditional Asian country" (he never did tell me where he came from), where there was a place for every season of life. He said the older you became, the more honor you received. He said that people actually wanted to learn from the elders, from those who walked their path before and had real experience to share. They valued the wisdom of experience. He said people tended to pay attention more as they grew because they knew that one day they would be older and would be sharing the lessons they learned with the younger generations. He went to explain how, once you got gray hair, people would come to you for advice, would show you incredible honor and respect, and would look to you for more leadership. Growing old was not something to dread, but something to look forward to.
However, it seems to me that the USA is geared toward the young. Life is about thrills, experiences, the celebration of youth. In this elderly man's culture, you were given more and more honor as you grew older - in our culture, you get more and more in the way. We don't turn to the elderly for wisdom and advice, we turn to psychologists and scientists. We don't care about the elderly's experience, and have no interest in learning from them. We think we know better, or that we can figure it out without them.
My daughter had a Christmas ballet performance in a nursing home. We got there early, and I sat and watched as all the elderly came. Here we were in this building way off in a corner of the city where people could dump the elderly out of their lives and get on with their careers and whatnot. I watched as these elderly got so excited over my daughters. They went on and on about how rarely they ever see children. This is when I started talking to the elderly man I referred to earlier. He told me that in the village he grew up in, the elderly were always around children, whether it was the grandmothers helping the younger woman with their infants, or the grandfathers telling stories and teaching important life lessons to the children. As he talked, I realized what a treasure he was, so I kept asking him more questions. He told me how he worked hard to escape the village he grew up in because he was allured with the new modern life he heard about. He told me how he eventually came to the USA and did everything he could to provide for his children so they could grow up, go to university, and become successful. He told me how he worked into his own children the very mentality that caused them to eventually put him into the nursing home. His son visits every week, but he still can't help thinking about how it was in his childhood village, and how different things were there. He doesn't blame his son at all. He realizes that people are left with little choice in this modern society. It just isn't designed with elderly in mind. You can't easily pursue a modern career with a modern lifestyle and give the elderly the same kind of place. They do indeed become a burden, and this man explained to me that he does not want to get in the way of his son's success. He said it would be even more difficult for him to be living with his son, because he would always feel like a burden.
I still think of myself as young. But I couldn't help see in his face a reflection of the truth that we all age. It is unavoidable and inevitable. And as we age, it seems that there is less and less for us - we become less and less important.

What do you think? Is this a real issue? Does anyone else feel like our society has missed an important treasure here? Do you think we've lost the old sense of honor and respect? Can we, should we, give the elderly a place of honor and respect once again? I know this is possible, because every now and then I run into a family that tries to live this way... but, for our society as a whole, it seems we've missed something here. I can say that I've seen friends make the exact same mistakes their grandparents made, and if they had just taken the time to get feedback from the elderly before heading down a path, they could have saved themselves so much grief. And now they have this priceless experience - they can't go back and relive that part of their life with this new experience they have gained - the only option now is to teach the next generation... but the next generation won't listen... they just don't care. I had one older friend tell me recently, "how can I blame them? I was exactly the same at their age - really felt like I was able to figure it out on my own... and I suppose I did, but I hurt myself and others far more than necessary. And some of the damage can never be undone. There are things now that I can never have in my life because of those decisions."


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#2 User is offline   derrek 

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 02:26 PM

I couldn't agree more with the man. I personally look forward to my older years a lot, and prepare for them every day. I try my best to collect useful wisdom, because I want to be that old man that can always help and has answers (if not questions) for youth. That being said, I think it has been happening for a while. I think the elders these days have also lost that ability to be that leader and guide that they used to. Now we seem to have a lot less of a personal connection with everyone, and especially older people. The internet, phone and TV have all the answers to things, and if not there's always a "quick way out" that people will take.

I'm very amused by the elderly. I especially am amused by the men like him, I would love to have more people like him in my life. I still look for that "one master" through out my journey. Someone that is appreciative to have a young apprentice to all of his wisdom. I wish I could say it was someone in my family, but it's definitely not.

I read books by old leaders (spiritual / religion) all the time. I love reading their thoughts and words... nothing can compare to experience and wisdom, and there's no one better to go to than an elder with his head on straight. I would love to live in a world where it's more old fashioned. I've often thought about how if I met the one that could guide me and teach me, how I would drop everything and take care of him in return for his wisdom. I'm not meant for a world like we have now, it's simply not my thing.

As far as honor goes, I have written several big pieces about honor. I believe honor is a word seldom used these days, and I think that single word alone and everything it represents can change someones life completely for the good. I live a life of honor, I try my best to be the best person I can. I'll see if I can dig up one of my old writings on how I believe honor should still be a word used regularly.
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#3 User is offline   princesspoppy 

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 03:13 PM

Well I was looking forward to grow old, but now, I'm kinda afraid to, because I won't get any Social Security benefits when I'm 70!!!
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#4 User is offline   contro 

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 06:09 PM

America is a young country. I don't know if you guys realize this. Other countries have a well established histroy with wars etc. Granted we have had our own internal wars as well. Being born and raised in America and learning about other cultures not in school but on my own, I have a need or a longing to move to a diffrent foreign country but as I look and research other countries , I constantly see less freedoms. As much as I dislike this country, I love it as well and respect the elders I meet and talk to that have been in wars, my grandpa was a united states marine, my father faught in the vietnam war, but me I am not even a registered voter. Figure that one out, learning from our elders...I guess I did not do that... But in all honesty I do respect the elders that take the time to talk to me especially that real estate guy in a town I used to live in, he did not have to talk to me but he did and I enjoyed what he taught me.

Also I think we can blame the internet for having less respect for our elders, come on everything we need to learn is a google search away.
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#5 User is offline   Prot 

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 10:04 PM

I think the easiest way to put this is this: Entertainment and media has washed away traditional values. People become more selfish and self centered with the greater expansion in entertainment, transportation, and getting information. The ease of doing other activites has greatly improved, things are a lot more convienent than they were back in the day. So less time is spent towards the family structure at home, and more on building a career, and pursuing selfish desires within everyone's heart.

There isn't anything wrong with pursuing your own goals, keeping yourself happy, but the problem is many people don't know where to draw the line. They don't realize what they are doing, they are addicted to their selfish lifestyle, and inconsiderate of the impact it has to their family. I am guilty of this as well, so I try to take the time out of my schedule to be with my parents atleast once a week. The difference is when people don't realize this, and think "Oh, I'll make time for my family next week, there is plenty of time later," then next week becomes next week and soon, it becomes a year, and the years turn to decades and your life is flashing by like that.

Anyway, simply put, back then, the family structure was a lot stronger without the media temptation, with a more village like worklife(such as family run stores), without social climbing, without career climbing. This day in age, it seems everyone wants to become more efficient, and then they neglect others, becoming lost and focused on themselves.
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#6 User is offline   Risse 

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 03:16 AM

I think am a Geria-phile lol (if that word exists), most old people are cool and always have stories to tell. lol

Anyway I get what you mean it is not only in America but here in Asia as well. Grandparents and parents are seen as inconveniences and many of them are thrown in homes.

And that work opportunities given to the old, sometimes I see it as a gimmick for some companies to justify getting cheaper labour.

Also the issue of how old people have to be more self sufficient than ever. Having kids aren’t insurance for old age. There is no knowing whether they would treasure and appreciate you when you get older. This is especially so in Asia where children are expected to take care of their parents in old age. As the world modernises and people get more selfish, not many kids are willing to do so.

In Asia kids usually move out only after they get married unlike in the States where you guys move out for college and for work. Parents thus spend more years with their children. But the sad thing is once the children get married and have kids, their own parents are either considered home-help and treated like free labour to take care of their grandchildren or do the chores.

I heard this from a my friend’s grandma whose friend was in quite a terrible situation some time back.
An old lady lived with her daughter after she got married and they basically treated her like a maid - to bring the kids to and from school, do the household chores and even cook their meals. Thing is the daughter expected four dishes and soup daily for dinner with quality ingredients and stuff but only gave her a pittance to buy the ingredients. The old lady however did not ask for me and took money out from her savings to pay for their meals.

Her daughter is a lawyer and her husband a rich businessman and they live in a private semi-detached house with three levels. Imagine the physical strain needed to clean the place. Geez. Eventually encouraged by her friends (one of them is my friend’s grandma) the old lady chose to get admitted to a home and is now much happier. She misses her grand children though.

Another family acquaintance whom I do meet at family events. This lady’s son married a foreign wife who gave him a son. (I don’t wanna name their nationality cos I don’t wanna seem as though am generalising) She brought her whole family home after they got married. Because his mom and wife couldn’t get along – out he chucked his mother who brought him up single-handedly as his dad died when he was young.

I am the eldest grandchild on my mom’s side and I had the privilege to have been under her care From I was a baby till I started Primary school I stayed with her in the weekdays and went home to be with my parents over the weekends as my kindergarten was near where my grandma lived. I think being close to my grandma and knowing her story of how she left my grandpa and carried on her life with six young children (That is another story) has shaped me, be it attitude, thoughts and morals and also how I conduct myself around my elders.

She is a strong woman with incredible faith, sometimes too much that I get a tad irritated by her. She always telling me to pray and that she is praying for me. That she loves me and that God loves me. I have issues with religion and feel that I go to Church because I am obligated to do so and also because I don't wanna disappoint her. (That is also another story) I love her to bits and I don’t know how I will cope when she passes on. I try my best not to think about it.

I feel so sad when I hear of people abusing the old, quite a lot of my friends are not too close to their grandparents and sometimes their reaction and attitudes towards them appal me.

Ok I think I have rambled too much and have gone way off tangent but yes.. there is no place for older folks now.

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#7 User is offline   mikomi 

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 06:41 AM

I get what you mean and the most horrifying way this issue shows itself is the fact that one of the most under-reported crimes are those against the elderly- abuse, taunting, ect. just because they are vulnerable in their state of age. Many of the elderly can't report it or don't simply because it happens so much that they're afraid to. Not only is the world designed for the youth, but it's also dangerous for those who aren't the strongest and most energetic. Elderly people can't even drive where i'm from b/c people are always so busy and eager to get places faster. I guess it depends on where you're from. In a country where age is everything, it may not be the same experience in comparison to those in the U.S. where age is, in many cases (but not all), just a number.
On the other hand, I feel like the term 'young' should be used more loosely. I think 40s is still young-still capable of going places, being independent, and still look good.
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#8 User is offline   phoenix rise 

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 07:09 AM

mtv - all of the people there are up 25 years old max.

pro sports such as the NFL - 30 years old is considered too old

movies - they are all young

college education - anything under 22 years old is considered to be old and untraditional


i don't know it seems like the older you are the more "uncool" you are.

but yeah. i think old people are awesome. each one of them has their own story to tell and most of the time the story gives insight into why they are who they are as a person.



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#9 User is offline   contro 

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 07:38 AM

QUOTE (phoenix rise @ Dec 30 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
mtv - all of the people there are up 25 years old max.

pro sports such as the NFL - 30 years old is considered too old

movies - they are all young

college education - anything under 22 years old is considered to be old and untraditional


i don't know it seems like the older you are the more "uncool" you are.

but yeah. i think old people are awesome. each one of them has their own story to tell and most of the time the story gives insight into why they are who they are as a person.


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But other than that there are youg-uns like us that still respect the elderly as long as their not crazy. Also one of the companies I recently worked for might be coming out with a cure for Alzeheimer's.
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#10 User is offline   PaNgIeE 

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 08:03 AM

With each generation comes big changes and the changes are gearing toward the young more and more. Why? Because it is so much easier to gear it towards the young who will buy it, get it, spend it, play it, and whatso with it. The younger generation want the materialistic things in life that can make them happy - things that are enjoyable and entertaining. The older generations don't have the need for certain things. They want and need things of value. In my opinion, the more we have to offer the more that the generations will be younger.

Like you coreancc I feel like I am still young and don't want to grow old. However, at the same time I can feel that I've changed and that by growing older just means that I've lived for so and so years. I'm 30 and I truly never imagine I'd get here. I reflect back and I've wonder just what I've done in all those years and yet I am content at where I am at because who would of thought that by not having everything in life is also having everything in life. The older you get the years do fly by faster, but you know what it also means that you've accomplished a lot in life whether it be a family, a career, traveling, etc.

I can honestly relate to the older gentleman you've met who wants to grow older because it means to have honor. I see him like I see my parents, my older siblings, and the older generations around me. They all hold something significant. They hold the knowledge of life and that is why I love to sit and hear them tell stories of their lives. However, being born in this modern society and growing up being more americanize you lose sight of the importance of values, morals, traditions, the meaning of working hard and what little means a lot. Its all about the "want" rather than the "need" of things and people. So, yeah I feel a bit of sadness when I think that someday my kids will grow up not knowing anything about their own traditions and culture, but that's the reality of it all. The older generation are slowly fading and we barely hold on to what they've taught us or shown us. It is a treasure that will be lost.

I guess the only thing to do is to make the most of it. I've lost my mom so suddenly in my life 10 yrs ago and I remember that I felt so ashame of myself because I never got the chance to really know her they way I should. The things I could of learned. That the harsh truth is that life is unpredictable and anything can happen at any time. So, yes we may live in this modernized world with all the cool gadgets and technology, but deep down we are all still humans who only want the best in life to offer. I for one have seen and experience a bit of sadness to understand that I want so much more in life and enjoy every possible moment I can get with the people I love and value. If you really take the time to sit with someone much older you'll find out that you can learn so much. I know that for a fact. smile.gif


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#11 User is offline   incyphe 

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 10:17 PM

I think the irony is that kids today need the wisdom of the elders more than ever.

Contrary to what some say, I think kids today are growing up / maturing at a slower rate than ever before. I don't believe for a second that the kids today are "being forced to grow up early". It's quite the opposite in my opinion. They're all being spoon-fed/pigeon-holed, or just plain neglected. None of which does anything good to their development. And when I say kids today, I'm also including myself into the mix even though I'm 30.

I think this is one of many symptoms of a society driven too much by capitalism / free-market economy. Specialization, increased productivity and efficiency is the name of the game, and people fall victim to this system. What you have now is a system that's being served by the people, instead of the opposite. Kind of like a tail wagging the dog.

Sorry for straying. I just find this whole state of affair rather depressing.
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#12 User is offline   HSuke 

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 11:08 PM

Agreed, coreancc. I spent much of my childhood with my grandfather, and it was wonderful just being around him and bringing him joy. Now, I hardly have any time to visit him. I feel as Luc Clairmont felt when he was kept away from his grandmother in Chocolat. The difference is that my obstacle is not my mother but society and work. There is much I can learn from my grandparents and his past.

QUOTE (incyphe @ Dec 30 2008, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They're all being spoon-fed/pigeon-holed, or just plain neglected. None of which does anything good to their development.

Yes, we are spoon fed. It's the unfortunate easy way. =(

Well, at least we have Wikipedia and easier access to information.
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#13 User is offline   derrek 

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 06:47 AM

I would marry Wikipedia if I could.
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#14 User is offline   contro 

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 12:44 AM

QUOTE (derrek @ Dec 31 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would marry Wikipedia if I could.

Be careful of wikipedia anyone can edit it. I once edited it to support an arguement I was having with someone and they believed it until I told them and they are watched for changes but it takes time like 5-15 minutes to change the article back.

I did it fer the LULZ btw!
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#15 User is offline   cavil. 

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 04:02 PM

Reading everyone's posts, a lot of good inputs being made.

Though, I disagree with everyone for the most part.
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#16 User is offline   coreancc 

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 04:19 PM

QUOTE (cavil. @ Jan 10 2009, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Reading everyone's posts, a lot of good inputs being made.

Though, I disagree with everyone for the most part.

Thanks for sharing... but, mind telling us why?

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#17 User is offline   taiji. 

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:50 PM

after i had lunch with my coworker a couple of days ago, he said something like "i like to talk to people who are more experienced in life so i can get advices from them and follow the advices. because by following advices from someone who has a lot of experience in life, you are going to save time on making mistakes"

he's from africa and was born and raised most of his life there so he definitely looked at things different than how i looked at them. i agree with what he said for the most part but i personally think it's sometimes good to make mistakes so that you will be extra cautious not to make the same mistakes again. but yeah, i'm getting a little off topic here..

after reading the OP's post, i can kinda better understand what my coworker meant.

i personally like talking to my 76 year old grandpa because he seems to know a lot of little things that young people wouldn't know about. after talking to him, i found out so many random facts about why certain things are the way they are.. he does have like 5 different degrees including a PhD so he's like a walking encyclopedia. smile.gif
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#18 User is offline   Pogichinoy 

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:01 PM

Nowadays the world wants everything if not right now, then earlier.

Naturally, most young find it easier to learn something than the grey generation. These are the people that are needed to complete a task in the working world, and hence why they are chosen and the grey generation replaced.

Time has never been more critical than it is now.

It's a pity because the grey generation have so much experience that the young cannot even dream of.
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#19 User is offline   Ogihara_Hideki 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 12:56 AM

We'll all get there one day or another. Some people think they'll never grow old. I was one of those people and like Mark Twain said. "It's a shame that youth is wasted on the young". I'd be in such a better spot in life at this very moment if I had listened to just half the things my parents told me. Some things never really register till you "get there". It's never too late to do anything, it's just gets more difficult as time goes by. That's why we have our elders and true wisdom only comes from experience.

I have a cousin in his late teens. He's all about the I don't need a career or school or family etc. I have my friends forever. And no matter how I try and approach him about maybe taking some serious thought into his life, he just doesn't seem to care. If I could only go back to where he is in life... my God the possibilities.

I agree with many of you pointing out that there is a serious decay in our moral fabric. The materialistic drive and the endless desire for convenience has made us lesser people. Especially, the younger generation. The human condition is quite depressing.
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#20 User is offline   watcher 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 01:54 AM

i think the real lost treasure is that of loving others. respect to me was always a common courtesy. the old man with infinite wisdom may not be too much different from the cripply old man that sneers at young kids whenever they pass by. at the end of the day, we have our health and our youth. it's something that should be offered to our elders, who have less and less of it as time rolls by. not realizing this is what i feel is the true failure of our generation.
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