[eunbit]

*update: new post here*

*Point of this Poll? this Post?
for Soompiers to be aware that, yes, we are bigger than the generations that came before us.
for Soompiers to think about the types of food we eat everyday, and what foods are AVAILABLE to eat, for the average person.


My greatest annoyance in the past three years has been the villifying of normal-weight, healthy slim people as "skinny".

wake up people. have you guys seen Wall-E? that's not the future, that's the present.

we are bombarded by ads in every aspect of our lives (thanks GoogleAdSense!).
and, we are increasingly overfed and inactive to the point that over 30% of Americans are clinically OBESE, and over 60% 'overweight'.

that's in generous American terms. Why is it that an Asian size Extra Large is a Medium in the US?
......
......
......

Could it be that the Western understanding of 'normal' has undergone rapid, generous increase in the past 60 years?
From the increasingly de-nutriated, non-"organic", toxic, cheap, fatty foods? *sponsored by the USDA*

Yeah, that seems to be it.
I am in my early twenties, ~5'3 or 158 cm, and weigh ~110 lbs. I wear an American size 4, 2, 0; XS, or S, depending on the maker; my measurements are about 33-25-33. Do you know what my real size is?

10. or maybe a 12. and that's from the most recent sizing chart revision.
back in the forties, I would have been a 14, or perhaps a 15 (the average size):


MISSES SIZING CHART CIRCA 1939 TO 1957

CODE

SIZE          
10      11       12      13      14      15      16       18        20      40        
BUST        
28      29       30      31      32      33      34       36        38      40
WAIST      
23     23.5     24      25      26      27      28       30        32      34
HIP            
31      32       33      34      35     36       37       39        41      43

Then, with the sudden increase in cheap meat, milk, dingdongs and hohos in the american diet, the misses sizing charts underwent another revision, less than 20 years later:
*and suddenly, i would no longer be a 14~15, but a more flattering 13!
*somewhere, the size '40' just disappeared!

MISSES SIZING CHART 1957 TO 1967

CODE

SIZE          
9          10         11         12         13         14         15         16         18         20      
BUST      
30.5        31       31.5        32         33         34         35          36         38        40
WAIST    
23.5        24       24.5        25         25.5      26         27          28         30        32
HIP        
32.5        33       33.5        34         35         36         37          38         40        42

Then, ONE YEAR LATER, the sizing charts were revised.... again.
(I guess those twinkies and dingdongs were more *nutritious* than anyone had imagined!!
*And, the author of this post would now be a very flattering 10.
*Additionally, the original size 40 (now an 18) is not the largest size; there are an additional 3 new 'sizes' to accommodate the expanding girth of American ladies:

MISSES SIZING CHARTS 1968 TO NOW

CODE

SIZE            
4          6          8          10          12       14       1 6        18        20       22        24        
BUST        
29.5     30.5      31.5       32.5        34       36        38        40        42       44        46
WAIST      
22         23         24          25        26.5      28       30        32        34       37        39
HIP            
31.5     32.5     33.5        34.5        36       38        40        42        44       46        48

You'd think going from a size 15 down to 13 down to a 10 (without losing one ounce) would make everyone happy.
But no.
Despite the inflation of the standard dressmaker charts, designers took it one step FURTHER.
And somehow, the author of this post wears jeans in sizes 2 and 0.
Two? Zero??? Double zero??? Nope, these 'new' sizes were NOT the result of now much thinner models and celebrities. They were created to compensate for the increasing vanity sizes to appease the chubby young bride buying a designer gown, or the pleasantly plump young teenagers buying their first pair of Calvin Kleins or other frivolous designer item.


Think about it guys. Even looking at that last chart.... do you guys know ANYONE who is a real size 4?
Because I certainly don't.
And I am annoyed to death at all the tabloids and netizens who scream "death to skinny!" when likely 99% of them have way more than a healthy 'pinch'.


I was really disturbed to see how much chubbier little kids are these days. (What happened to recess?)
I was even more disturbed to see my younger siblings ALL take issue with Korean celebs for being "too skinny".
What!?
Most of my 'twinkie' gyopo (dongpo) friends/associates too, would take issue with perfectly healthily thin people (even me, after I lost weight even though I am nowhere near thin) and criticize them.

I'm not promoting the pursuit of thinness by starving oneself/not exercising.
But in the end, we all are honestly eating ourselves to death.

And it is not isolated to Western countries. The spread of the American diet, of very unhealthy, high-fat, high-sugar processed foods is causing obesity, heart disease, and early death by stroke into all Asian and European countries it spreads to.
The Okinawans' legendary longevity of 100+ years? No longer present in the middle-aged and younger generations.
Do you really need to wonder why?


* a note on SNSD*
even though i suspect that the girls of SNSD have gotten botox injections for their supernaturally thin thighs and limbs, i don't see why anyone considers that general shape to be 'skinny' or 'too thin'. i do think that considering their age and the amount of dancing they do, their fat levels and musculature are artificially repressed. i've found hyori and hyun young to have very attractive figures for their relative heights. also, the lovely uzbekistan girls from MiSuDa have amazing figures and yes, they would be considered extremely thin by the average (chunktastic) American.



skinny is unattractively boney, sometimes (strangely) with loose skin folds. and honestly, except for the one girl in a chemistry class who was a bona fide anorexic (she's since recovered) i've yet to see anyone who i can call 'skinny'.
i really think that the recent trend of calling perfectly healthy, slim people 'skinny' is the defensive attitude of people who could lose a few pounds.

Think over your diets, guys. Do you eat at least one processed food item (packaged cereal/candy bar/Poptart/ frozen pizza/ canned pasta sauce/ ice cream/ commercially baked bread-donut-coffeecake-cake-cupcake-muffin) a day?

The truth is, the American food supply is so tainted with corn syrups, refined sugars, refined grains, preservatives, waxes, fertilizers, growth hormones, antibiotics, etc, that they are severely compromised in nutritional value.

What happens when your body doesn't get the nutrition it needs? What happens when you eat a lot of "Low-Fat!" foods?
Your body goes into HELL.
Your body NEEDS essential nutrients from food, and if the density of those nutrients is.... well, sparse...
Your body is going to DEMAND MORE FOOD.



In microeconomics, there is a (naive) oft-cited example of limits of consumption.
Such as, one person can only eat so many loaves of bread/jugs of milk/racks of ribs, you get the picture.
But how about this?

What if the big businesses behind food production think, "Why, that's really not enough"?

What if those businesses have made a ton of money by making nutritionally-sparse, packaged food EXPENSIVE (ie, breakfast cereals) and additionally, fortify them with a lot of "nutrients" that your body CAN'T PROCESS? (ie, iron in cereals)

What if those businesses also add refined sugars/fats/hydrolized oils in carefully calculated proportions to take advantage of the innate addictiveness of carbs and fats? (ie, ice cream)

Answer: These companies have created
1. food products which are so nutritionally sparse, the human body DEMANDS a greater quantity for survival;
2. foods which are scientifically calculated to be 'addictive' in taste with artificial flavor enhancers, enzymes, synthesized scents, emulsifiers and hydrolyzed fats;
3. foods which we eat greater quantities of, resulting in bigger revenues and greater profit
3. foods which are advertised by BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in magazines, tvs, billboards, elementary schools! buses! the Internet!!!


Read Slaughterhouse.
Read Omnivore's Dilemna.
Realize that the USDA has been in cahoots with big businesses for years, and it is our generation that can demand an end to it.

[Cheri.B*]

I guess that makes sense because I used to wear medium and size 2-4 in pants and for some reason nowadays i am a xs and size 00 and 0... I thought I was seeing things. I haven't shop for 1-2 years until now~_~
It made me feel like I am underweight too because recently I get people pointing out how sick skinny I look but the doctor told me my health is fine, but people insist I should gain more weight...
so does this mean the American measurement standard changes? or does the rest of the world is too?

[Juli~<3]

some makers deliberately tag a larger item as a size smaller too.
its sad. i guess its not the size that matters, just the measurements.

[oubliette]

This is really a very good post, thank you for making it.

I'm a size 2-4 in pants, about 5'7", and I've always considered myself average. I've never understood why people keep calling me 'thin' because I am certainly not thin. So I guess that I have been right all along?

Recently, I do consider Keira Knightley 'thin' though, fyi. But in general I agree with you - I would give anything to have a body like SNSDs.

I've been thinking about the overly processed foods recently too, actually. I think I'm going to look into oatmeal and try to give up some of my cereals because honestly, even though I do eat the 'healthier cereals' like Fiber One and Multigrain Cheerios...cereal is just too damn expensive.

Again, thank you!

[obscuremirage]

Thank you for posting this! I find the charts fascinating. I believe many americans are in denial. I will admit it myself, I am 5'4" and 156lbs, I am overweight and I know it. How did I get there?? I know that too. I have gotten away from processed foods in the last few years, I still eat a few here and there but not as much as before. My health is better, but I am overweight because of my sweet tooth and my lack of exercise. But I am working to change that myself. I think there is nothing wrong being thin and maybe my sense of "thin" and "skinny" is warped being and American. My fiance is korean and I have gained weight since I first met him, and we argue once and a while about weight. I say well I can't be as tiny as korean girls may be, and I name a number of reasons. And he says don't be skinny be healthy. I laugh at it and think most of them are healthy even though in my eyes I know they are just thin and healthy, I am overweight. I get jealous and say they are skinny, to make myself feel better. But I know I am the one who needs to change my thinking, I wish more women could see those sizing charts and they would just be in shock. It would be fun to reverse the sizing charts though and see what it would do for people's health. Great post though!

[soyabeangirl16]

you have some really good points there, so much of sizing and food is advertising. people want you to feel good about the clothes youre buying from them and stuff. i should really remember that...
i seem to use slim and skinny interchangably, maybe i just want to be 'slim,' and so do a lot of other people.
gosh women, LOVE YOUR CURVES! even if you want them to stick out less and be made of less fat lol

[*frutti]

deleteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[soompiliciouss]

this is a great post. i learned so much from it.
a couple years ago i was consistently a size 2 and 3, and now i magically fit into a size 1 in the same stores.
this negative image that has been conjured up in america has deteriorated our health and affected the way people see themselves. i myself and guilty of eating many processed foods regularly, but it's so hard to know now a days what is "healthy" and what really isn't. labels do almost nothing. i can say much, much more on this topic, but unfortunately, i have to go back to studying for finals D=

thanks for posting this.

[Mihi]

Wow, this is quite educational. ^-^~ We don't even learn this kind of stuff at school. How would us kids know about the changing sizes?

[imhitomi]

I remember reading somewhere that Marilyn Monroe was a size 16 or something according to the sizing scale back in her day. Put's things in perspective a little.

What's also hard is that there is NO STANDARD SIZE for women's clothing. With guys, a certain measurement = a certain size pretty much everywhere. With girls, it's not the case. Even in the same store, I can wear an XS in one dress but then an XL in another style. It's crazy.

I've learned to ignore sizes completely. I try on what looks like it's around the right size, then move from there. I wear a size 3 in one brand of jeans, but I'm still a size 7 by another brand's standards. It makes shopping hard. Rather than focus on the size number, I remeber my measurements in inches.

[Naruelle]

actually korean people DO have pretty unrealistic expectations for girls weights.
it's also true that americans think everybody who's not plump is skinny although honestly they are at just a normal healthy weight.
But SNSD girls and other korean celebrities ARE USUALLY underweight. They tend to be around 5'4-5'6 ish weighing around 80-100 lbs.
Even in medical standards that's pretty underweight and actually unhealthy since girls need to have some fat to be healthy/have babies. (around 20-24 % body fat I believe?)
Korean guy's idea of 'chubby' was Hyori (5'4, 117lbs), Solbi (well solbi I see a lil), song hye gyo, son dambi, and Kim Hye Su.
Totally convoluted standards >_<

Korea's an extreme of wanting to be too skinny and America's too lenient about girl's weights. You just gotta stay in the middle somehow

I remember reading somewhere that Marilyn Monroe was a size 16 or something according to the sizing scale back in her day. Put's things in perspective a little.

Let us note that Marilyn Monroe wore size 16 during that time period. In reality she was around 118 lbs at 5'5 and about 36-24-34.

For example, Marilyn Monroe is said to have worn a size 16 dress. However it should be mentioned that this fails to consider the changes in American garment sizing over the last century. Pre-1960s women's clothing size 16 is equivalent of modern day women's clothing size 4. Monroe was 5'5" and for most of her adult life weighed 118 lbs and measured 36-24-34[18], which would make her approximately a women's size 12 by modern American sizing standards[19]

[juny]

Another smart topic eunbit! I agree, I wish the companies could stop supplying us with refined, processed, nutritionally empty food. It's recommended that one shop around the perimeters of the grocery market (fresh produce, minimally processed food) instead of the aisles in the center of the store (everything that comes in a box, can, bottle, etc. = pretty much dead food). That's why people overeat, because we are nutritionally deficient from eating empty calories.

[_Riri_]

Thank you. That was a nice post! Very informative and certainly very eye-opening.

I honestly think that people are too busy being pleased that they aren't a "skinny-unhealthy-anorexic" (which all thin girls seem to be to the general eye these days), so they sometimes forget that just because they aren't starving doesn't make them healthy. I'm sorry but some larger women get really pissed when thin/slim women wants to lose a bit of weight. But do relax. It is never that much anyway. It is rarely enough to kill them but may just be enough for them to fit jeans or something better.

As to the sizing - I honestly have no clue about whether they have been changed here. But I used to think that under a size 8-ish (UK size) was like normal. But then I read somewhere that the supposed "healthy" size is like 12-16. That I just simply refuse to believe. That is my size and bigger and I am not healthy.

Luckily though we do not have so many American "all-bad" products yet. But we probably will soon. So thanks for the heads up

Sorry if I have offended someone but that is just my oppinion.

[little mixed girl]

uhm, people should exercise, but i take some issue with how you characterize sizes in asia.

if i'm buying clothing off the street in korea, then the "free" size is usually equivalent to an american xs or s.

but in a regular store?

sorry, but an asian XL does NOT = an american medium.
clothing sizes in japan are about 1 size smaller than the US ones, from what i've found.
i'm a small in the US, and a medium in japan.

second, there are a lot of healthy foods available in america.
since coming to japan i'm so tired of hearing japanese people go on and on about how "healthy" their food is compared to ours.
all while they ignore that every other food in the supermarket is fried, that they sell donuts cooked in lard with 400 calories for 1 small donut, etc.
the problem is people who make and continue to make unhealthy food choices.
a lot of those added bits are there to give the food flavor and to allow it to last longer than a few days.

you know how much it sucks to go to the store and buy bread with 8 slices that has an expiration date of 3 days later?
how about food totally devoid of flavor? like cakes that taste like baked flour?

again, it's all about choices. we all have them.

it's true that companies are "downsizing" their clothes.
but no matter if your jeans say 0 or 30, if you're overweight, you already know it.

next, you talk about korean singers and the misuda girls?
you know that the eastern european girls on that show are mostly models? their job is to stay as thin as possible.
the same with those korean stars.
i wouldn't look to most of them as examples of people who are a good weight.
magazines in asia and the US are promoting unhealthy thinness.

i have a weight loss ad that claims that a girl who was 156cm and 48.5kg was overweight with a BMI of 29.4%!!
good thing she was able to slim down to a "normal" 38kg and "18.4%" BMI.
(according to a real BMI calculator, 156 and 48.5kg = 19.9%; 156 and 38kg = 15.6%...doesn't sound too good to me)

if you are going to take issue with "fat" americans and how "better" it is in asia, you need to realistically look at how ads in asia pressure people to be underweight.
you also have to look at how a lot of girls in asia are literally starving themselves to be "normal"...even using smoking to try and be thin.

i agree that a lot of people in america need to slim down, but to act like america is ONLY filled with fat junk?
wtf...

[ChouChou]

^ well generally speaking, food in asia is a lot more healthier then in america or the UK
even though, like you said, japan has it's fatty treats, their diet is largely based on raw seafood/steamed/boiled stuff
whereas in america, a normal persons diet would consist of fries/burgars etc etc

i'm from a chinese background, and although i was born and brought up here in the UK, my diet is based on traditional chinese food where almost everything is steamed/boiled or lightly tossed in a wok and consists of a huge variety of different veg and meat
i've been over friends houses for meals and their diets are completely different!!! their usual dinner is basically something roasted/fried with fries and a small portion of veg

now i'm not saying that every american/british family eat like that
just the majority
and i understand how everyone has choices
but its difficult when everywhere you turn it seems as though only fatty food is available



and i think the thread starter is right about the sizes
my bf is usually a M-L because he's quite broad and muscular
but whenever we're in hong kong, its really difficult for him to find stuff that fits him
he usually has to wear the biggest size the store has and even then, sometimes it'd be too tight
and that's in the mainstream stores aswell


but i disagree with the whole SNSD not being skinny...they really are
i see alot of these ulzzangs etc and although i would love to have their figures, some of them....like serious..it's sick.....it's like their thighs are the same width of their calves..like wtf!

[peachgaru]

First of all, I want to thank you Eunbit for your very informative posts. I think you're usually on target and you're right on the money about companies trying to make us fat and the media is trying to villainize "skinny" in order to further brainwash it. There's definitely a problem with our food and our food culture, and this NEEDS to stop.

(Also thank you for your great post about skin products, I hope you keep supplying us with great information. I completely agreed with you)

But. What I have a slight problem with in your post..... is that while you did mention that this is becoming a global epidemic, the girls who are skinny in other cultures, are usually that way because there is a cultural pressure and not necessarily because they eat great diets. I've lived in Europe and Korea as well as the US, and while the food is much healthier, the junk is still there and is still the cheapest form of nutrition-- just like in the US. There are tons of pudgy Korean girls who eat normally, and they lose the weight after high school because it's not culturally accepted. They don't change what they eat persay-- they still eat junky modified foods-- but in MUCH smaller portions. We just don't have that kind of social pressure in the US. Instead of eating a healthy amount of nutritious options, they turn to calorie restriction bc they want a job, they want a bf, social acceptance, etc. Portion control-- simple.

As for MiSuDa, you keep mentioning those lovely Uzbeki girls....but c'mon please do NOT promote these girls as a picture of health. Take this from someone who was training to become a cast member and was THIS close to being on that program-- While some of the girls on MiSuDa were/are normal girls who were attending university before being casted, Jamilla (who I'm assuming you're alluding to) is thin because she's worked as a ummmm lady of the night for years and has had inordinate amounts of plastic surgery paid for by her ajjushi sponsor in order to become a star. She's thin bc she doesn't eat much, she smokes a lot, and she has lipo and injections often. Trust. Don't promote this kind of behavior as healthy. Most of the other girls on the show were NOT agency and nightclub girls and ate regular diets-- thus appearing pudgy on the television. This again points to cultural pressure. Girls who come from poor backgrounds, like Russian and Uzbeki girls who come to Korea, make the decision to stay thin because they need the patronage of men in order to make money and survive. I know this may be offensive and I"m sorry, but generally it is true.

[mwauhria]

halfway through reading this, i had a sudden urge to go work out >.> here i go. xP

[eunbit]

uhm, people should exercise, but i take some issue with how you characterize sizes in asia.

if i'm buying clothing off the street in korea, then the "free" size is usually equivalent to an american xs or s.

but in a regular store?

sorry, but an asian XL does NOT = an american medium.
clothing sizes in japan are about 1 size smaller than the US ones, from what i've found.
i'm a small in the US, and a medium in japan.

second, there are a lot of healthy foods available in america.
since coming to japan i'm so tired of hearing japanese people go on and on about how "healthy" their food is compared to ours.
all while they ignore that every other food in the supermarket is fried, that they sell donuts cooked in lard with 400 calories for 1 small donut, etc.
the problem is people who make and continue to make unhealthy food choices.
a lot of those added bits are there to give the food flavor and to allow it to last longer than a few days.

you know how much it sucks to go to the store and buy bread with 8 slices that has an expiration date of 3 days later?
how about food totally devoid of flavor? like cakes that taste like baked flour?

again, it's all about choices. we all have them.

it's true that companies are "downsizing" their clothes.
but no matter if your jeans say 0 or 30, if you're overweight, you already know it.

next, you talk about korean singers and the misuda girls?
you know that the eastern european girls on that show are mostly models? their job is to stay as thin as possible.
the same with those korean stars.
i wouldn't look to most of them as examples of people who are a good weight.
magazines in asia and the US are promoting unhealthy thinness.

i have a weight loss ad that claims that a girl who was 156cm and 48.5kg was overweight with a BMI of 29.4%!!
good thing she was able to slim down to a "normal" 38kg and "18.4%" BMI.
(according to a real BMI calculator, 156 and 48.5kg = 19.9%; 156 and 38kg = 15.6%...doesn't sound too good to me)

if you are going to take issue with "fat" americans and how "better" it is in asia, you need to realistically look at how ads in asia pressure people to be underweight.
you also have to look at how a lot of girls in asia are literally starving themselves to be "normal"...even using smoking to try and be thin.

i agree that a lot of people in america need to slim down, but to act like america is ONLY filled with fat junk?
wtf...

^ well generally speaking, food in asia is a lot more healthier then in america or the UK
even though, like you said, japan has it's fatty treats, their diet is largely based on raw seafood/steamed/boiled stuff
whereas in america, a normal persons diet would consist of fries/burgars etc etc

i'm from a chinese background, and although i was born and brought up here in the UK, my diet is based on traditional chinese food where almost everything is steamed/boiled or lightly tossed in a wok and consists of a huge variety of different veg and meat
i've been over friends houses for meals and their diets are completely different!!! their usual dinner is basically something roasted/fried with fries and a small portion of veg

now i'm not saying that every american/british family eat like that
just the majority
and i understand how everyone has choices
but its difficult when everywhere you turn it seems as though only fatty food is available



and i think the thread starter is right about the sizes
my bf is usually a M-L because he's quite broad and muscular
but whenever we're in hong kong, its really difficult for him to find stuff that fits him
he usually has to wear the biggest size the store has and even then, sometimes it'd be too tight
and that's in the mainstream stores aswell


but i disagree with the whole SNSD not being skinny...they really are
i see alot of these ulzzangs etc and although i would love to have their figures, some of them....like serious..it's sick.....it's like their thighs are the same width of their calves..like wtf!

There's been a lot of interesting comments, but I'll clarify just several things:

"American" diet: I don't see why so many Americans become defensive about their food culture. The truth is, staple "American" foods of the past century includes a lot of fatty meats, refined white grains, drenched in butter, deep fried, etc. Yes, Asian food does have their deep-fried dishes too, but those are usually small items such as appetizers or desserts. The way American food is cooked is on a different level of using excess oil and butter.

Also, using butter or oil is not a problem in themselves; the issue is always "in moderation" which just doesn't happen in the West. Cakes that taste like flour? The cakes I'm talking about are delicious, sweetened and made rich with real eggs, butter, sugar, rum, brandy, you name it. But cakes are supposed to be an occasional treat. Why else would they have become the staple of the Western birthday celebration? They were originally luxurious, rich-tasting, RARE treats. And to anyone who lived on an old-style self-sufficient farm, using the amount of sugar, eggs, and butter that goes into a cake meant THAT MUCH LESS available to last the season, or year.

America's Legacy -> Progenitors of Processed Foods
What I take real issue with is the spreading of processed/commercial foods. And to clarify, anything that isn't made from scratch is processed. Bread from the supermarket? Check. Brownie mix? Check. Store-bought ice cream? Check. When is the last time you ate a real home-cooked meal? Or put together a sandwich from home-made bread, natural organic meats, pesticide-free vegetables?

For most people, eating in such a manner is "luxurious" or "unnecessary". According to who? Who said that the processed versions of organic raw foods can substitute in terms of human nutrition? Who? The companies that have been doing this, the American government that is completely controlled by corporate interests? Would you stake your life, or the health of your child, into those hands?

I blame American food chemists and businesses for their greed. The abuse of hormones, vaccines and feeding animals things they were never meant to eat -- I feel that these should be illegal. Why is it that you can't order a steak rare anymore without seeing or hearing a warning from restaurant establishment? Because cows, which originally are meant to eat grasses, are now being fed corn to fatten up. The side effect is that their stomachs (yes, cows have more than one) are forced to endure MUCH more acidic contents than they've evolved to do. The side effect? Bacteria thriving in the guts, in the meat of cows.
Do you still order your beef a bit pink? There's really no difference between beef and pork now, in terms of bacteria contamination. Knowing that, have you EVER ordered pork rare?


The dirty foul truth is now, even staple items such as flour, milk, butter and eggs are tainted, because the production of grains, milk, eggs, etc, are done in a factory system.

Moldy?
For me, I'm happy to buy bread that doesn't have preservatives and will turn moldy within a week. It is bloody hard to find bakeries that do, and I stink at baking myself, but I sure as hell try.

I take the bites of insects and the growth of fungi as a POSITIVE FACTOR. If that twinkie, or Oreo, or boxed cereal, is so devoid of nutrition that the most ancient and well-developed of organism, the mysterious fungi and molds, CANNOT live on it, what makes you think that you can??

In the past century there has been a huge increase in every type of cancer, in heart disease, in food allergies, in skin "diseases" such as eczema and psoriasis, osteoporosis.... the list goes on.

What's been causing it? Overall, pollution is a small factor, but I say the real reasons are the horrific chemicals in nearly ubiquitous personal care products and the happy fake, toxic foods in supermarkets everywhere and forced fluoridation of drinking water. We the people eat what's available and have a naive belief that surely if it was deadly, it wouldn't be available. Surely the government would make laws, or test the food supply and follow up with independent studies on the true health of our citizens. But why would the powers that be do so, when the people are quiet on the issue from ignorance and it would be against the interests of their biggest customers, the American corporate pool?

In my other topic, I wrote that companies are making personal-care products formulated to make people dependent on the constant usage, leading to damage the bodies of everyone who uses them.

Here, my point is that food manufacturers and the clothing industry are becoming rich by our disposable lifestyle. We see constant ads to "reward" ourselves with super-sweetened, processed chocolate (load of tosh) and see exclusive "designer" clothes that fit and flatter us. We buy fast-food w/o guilt, despite the intake of garbage (our bodies and landfills). Fashion went on a rampage during the 80's and grew into a monster in the 90's.
When does dramatic clothes become fashionable? When people are prosperous and clothes are disposable.

Do we benefit from constantly buying new chemical skin/hair treatments to "correct" the problems that were caused by them? Do we benefit from having our egos petted by reassurance that we are on the "skinny" side if we wear so called 0, 2, 6? Do we benefit from eating processed garbage, from which our bodies have the easiest time extracting the fat and chemicals out of?

I didn't think so.


*Unhealthy Body Image*
A lot of readers are jumping to conclusions here. Yes, I did mention the FIGURES of certain well-known persons as examples of..... what?

The ideal nutrition?
The ideal lifestyle?

No.
Their figures are simply that: their shape. Being slim, even thin, is not unhealthy in and of itself.
Here we have to ask what's being taken for granted.
And it shows why this post is so necessary.

Given the typical "modern" diet, which IS present in Asia, Europe, and spreading rapidly, having such a figure is nearly impossible for most people. We know this. This is why the diet industry is a booming billion-dollar business (ah, more money to be made!) and why we find it so hard to "eat better" and succeed in gaining weight.
We don't like to think of ourselves as pigs, eating uncontrollably. I'm not saying we all are. But because of the way food is made and sold, and the human body's need to gain enough of necessary nutrients, we ARE TURNING INTO PIGS as our bodies try desperately to get enough of the true nutrients needed to maintain life.
The point of this post is that to most of us, eating a pure organic diet is impossible. But it doesn't have to be.

We citizens have the power to change this. However, it's not possible for us to stand up for an issue most are aware of, especially when the immediate reaction is resistance to understanding and accepting the situation.

We are getting fatter to an unacceptable degree.
The size "medium" used to mean, the average. Now it is just the 2nd smallest in a ballooning list of sizes for cotton tee-shirts. "Large" used to mean, someone noticeably larger than the AVERAGE. When the XL came into use several decades ago, it was surprising. Now we don't blink an eyelash at XXL, Triple-X L, and so forth.

And what does it tell us when the same tee-shirt that is now a Small USED to be medium less than four decades ago?

Asia
Japan is the world's second largest economy (and about to be budged out by China). I think it's representative of several things when "Japan" jumps to mind at mention of "Asia" by someone reared in the West. One is obvious. The other is that the Japanese diet has been hugely affected by food additives and processing. The Asian XL being equivalent to an American M (which I stand by) comes from my experience in China, which is fast following America and Japan's obesity and health problems.

Why is Thin/Slim Impossible?
For anyone on an balanced organic diet, being as "skinny" as a model is not a difficult option. SNSD girls are admittedly on the thin side by today's standards, and I did say that I believe they are given Botox injections in their limbs to keep them thin. However, their frames are those of Korean girls, which I feel is smaller than the global average. I still do not consider them skinny because they look well-nourished regardless. Skinny? Come ON now guys.... look at how the word looks like. How thin do you have to be if you give off an impression of skin and bones?

My contact with Uzbekistan and Russia has so far convinced me that the reason so many are thin there is bigger than their being "poor" and wanting to become models or girlfriends of rich men. The diets of many people in Eastern Europe have not been as stock-piled with processed commercial foods. Perhaps this is because food companies don't see as much of a market there? Maybe. The people I know who grew up in Kazakhstan, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, and so on, LOOK LIKE MODELS in terms of their natural thinness (some runway, others magazine). The German classmate of my brother sneers at the food available in America. He once saw my brother eating Doritos and shrieked "What are you doing to your body!" I've been told that that student plans on returning to Europe ASAP. And it's not just because of his disappointment with the shape and attitude of American girls on his campus.

Being as slim as the Uzebeki girls from MiSuDa (whom I only mentioned once, as examples of attractive figures)...
question yourself.
Why do you think these are unattainable standards?
Because with the food we eat now, being so thin means starving oneself?
That truly healthy foods are actually truly unattainable?
I think we're on to something here....

[peachgaru]

Eunbit, I really appreciate your response. Amen, amen, and amen. There's definitely something wrong with the American diet and attitude towards food. There's no need to become defensive about that. My mom's on WeightWatchers now and I HATE the way that her meetings are teaching her to eat. She will eat diet cookies all day and think that it's okay bc she is within her points. Kill me. What a stupid way to lose weight.


I'm currently trying to lose weight. I started gaining weight when I first moved to Korea and became hooked to cheap instant food and stuff like ddukbokki and sundae. Things that are okay in moderation should never be consumed daily. I became very fat. I did some TV and had many modeling agencies were interested in me, but my weight definitely became an issue. I'm still trying to lose it and I find it difficult to completely quit processed food.

I love your philosophy on eating, but what I'm having trouble with in my head is your examples. I lived in Germany (Berlin) for a long time and Germans eat much better than Americans, but they still love their Burger King, McDonald's and potato chips-- they just make it, as Cookie Monster says, a "sometimes food." They were mostly thin due to many factors, but mostly due to exercise, moderation, and -- hate to say it-- but smoking. Many, many Europeans smoke and MOST Eastern Europeans smoke-- that's a fact. I brought up the MiSuDa Uzbeki girls bc you brought them up not only in this post, but also the one about "what do you consider fat?", so clearly you think that their great bodies (and I do agree-- they look good) are due to a more unprocessed diet that is superior to "flabby" American's diets. I would love to accept this reasoning, but knowing these girls personally, having been in an eating situation with Djamila before, and having been around many Eastern European models in Korea, I can honestly tell you that it's not really WHAT they're eating, but how little that gives them this look. A bite of cup ramen bc you're too busy to have a meal or a Starbuck's mocha and then a few cigarettes is generally what's consumed on working days. And yes, they should stay thin bc that's how they're making money. I remember being at a sushi restaurant with our agent and he challenged me to a sushi eating contest. I stupidly accepted his challenge. I remember all those Russian girls faces (in horror, naturally) as I stuffed down 20 plates. In contrast, they ordered a small seaweed salad and had one to two pieces of sashimi (no rice) each. Portion. Control. Then they went out for periodic smoke breaks, ahha....I was SOOOOoooOOoooo ashamed. Especially bc this was the beginning of my weight problems...

((And ps. I didn't mean to say that all Eastern Europeans are slutty. They're not. But they are in a very different situation from more developed countries. First of al there are more women than men and the competition is steep. Secondly, in places like Korea, there are many English teaching positions and scholarships available to English speakers that aren't given to the E.E. women who move to Korea. Even when they are models, the assignments usually have very low pay bc Koreans assume that Russians are cheap labor. My agent was actively trying to recruit US models bc they would be paid more than the E.E. girls. Even great jobs like underwear model on Lotte Shopping (which Djamila did before MiSuDa) pays about 50,000-100,000 an assignment. It's just not enough, but many, and not just EE girls, work as hostesses or get sponsors to be able to live more generous lifestyles. Mantaining a great body only increases the chances of making money in this regard. Anyways, moving on.))

In contrast, I know many Americans who have fully accepted the organic lifestyle, but they are not what anyone would define as skinny. They eat very healthy foods, but in medium to large portions so they stay what you might define as "pudgy."

I feel like most American girls are in a hard place right now bc all of our peers seem to be filling themselves with junk and the thin people seem to not be eating. I really believe in what you're saying, but as all my examples of thin people seem to be cluttered with people who restrict their calories or use cocaine or cigarettes for weight control. Even seemingly naturally thin Eastern European models such as Petra Nemcova (sp?) come out later and admit they were starving and using laxatives. There are no good role models for us to find. All the skinny people I know (yep, including all my beautiful, skinny European and Korean friends) have not sworn off modified foods and all the all-organic, all-the-time people I know are far from model thin, they just look average. The answer seems to lie more in lifestyle, culture, and one's personal value for being thin than monitoring your chemical intake. ?_? I dunno T_T

So what is the truth? I'm really not sure.

Sorry if I seem argumentative, but I'm really searching for the truth about being thin and in this f#$% up diet culture of today, the answers seem hard to find. Anyways, keep making great posts and I think you're really onto something and I enjoy reading them.

Peace.

[obscuremirage]

I agree with both eunbit and peachgaru, I think we are on to something. I started to eat healthy about 2 years ago and I buy organic food when I can afford it, I have cut out many processed foods though I still eat some. And peachgaru you made a great point when you wrote, "In contrast, I know many Americans who have fully accepted the organic lifestyle, but they are not what anyone would define as skinny. They eat very healthy foods, but in medium to large portions so they stay what you might define as "pudgy." That would describe me, my portion control doesn't help me much. I'm working on that slowly though, my biggest problem is my sugar addiction. I need to figure out a way to break it and keep moving forward. I do believe that we should question society and look at foods. I believe that there really aren't many good models that are healthy, but I think we can look at ourselves and say you know, I know that isn't healthy, I know how I should eat, but what is healthy or thin? I think it varies with each person and their genetic makeup.

I think women need to acknowledge that even if we are the same height and weigh the same, doesn't mean we will look the same! I think we need to empower ourselves and learn about what is in our foods, why it is bad, why diet, low-cal, and sugar-free foods are even worse for you in most cases than regular food. Maybe mapping it out and discussing what a healthy body image and definition of thin is we might reach it. Thin is different in different countries with their cultural standards. I for one feel guilty when I see the expansion of American fastfood restaurants and coffee shops in different countries because now they will start to have the health problems americans have. No one should have to deal with that. We may have to deconstruct the image of "thin," and put it into a cultural context. Genetics, Food, Portions, Exercise, and Societal views will play a factor in it, but I think it would be interesting to explore and help many people with their image of what "thin AND healthy is." We should not just aim for being thin, instead of aiming for being thin we should aim to be healthy. Because that is what will keep us going.

Excellent posts by the way and I really do enjoy reading them and the comments, let's keep it going!