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Not Quite The Oedipus/Εlectra Complex, Buuut parents & the people you like

#1 User is offline   iridescent 

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Post icon  Posted 17 March 2009 - 05:42 PM

(this starts out like an analysis for class or something and then is just scattered throughout but please try to stick with me tongue.gif )





I was reading F. Scott Fitzgerald's short story "Babylon Revisited" when this quote made me pause:

“The present was the thing -- work to do and someone to love. But not love too much, for he knew the injury that a father can do to a daughter or a mother to a son by attaching them too closely: afterward, out in the world, the child would seek in the marriage partner the same blind tenderness and, failing probably to find it, turn against love and life.

I think that's so insightful, but I wonder whether it applies exclusively to a close attachment or blind tenderness. People say things like "boys like a girl like their mom," "girls like a boy like their dad" all the time, but like many things in life I feel like breaking that up into its parts vicx.gif. How much of our parents do we really seek out in people of the opposite sex?

It's something I've contemplated and even written about that in many ways, wives become like secondary mothers, by
  • Making food
  • Becoming an emotional backing/defense
  • Taking care during illness
  • Demeanor in general

I've done things like make soup for a boy when he was sick and away from home or tidy up or even scold playfully, and I didn't think about it at the time but those things comprised a motherly approach(???). Many of the more memorable things I've done for/regarding boys I felt something special for were of the same motherly sort. (Do you think it's meaningful that sweet things people do for the opposite sex often align with things mothers or fathers do, or is it merely coincidental? Or because nice things and ways to take care of someone are universal?) It's interesting that fathers "give up" their daughters because it seems to me that a mother loses a son in marriage more than a father loses his daughter. A husband isn't going to have his wife stand on his toes while they dance around like a father would, or teach her how to play sports. But maybe husbands take on a fatherly role as well, if husbands (traditionally, anyway) take on the protective and financial roles that a father generally takes on in his daughter's life?

That's not really the question I was really intending to ask, though -- everyone has his or her "ideal type" (I find they change as we get older, but everyone's dream prince or princess is lasting and unique in at least some way), but the people we actually end up choosing to involve ourselves with are usually quite different from that type.

To be honest I don't think boys or girls can really be clumped into types, and a boy who is outwardly just like your daddy or a girl who is outwardly just like your mother isn't going to be all that much like him/her. Similar-seeming personalities are often worlds apart -- we've all lived different lives, after all. But do you see many singular ties between the people you are instantly attracted to, or the people you date, and your mother (if you're a boy) or your father (if you're a girl)? Physically, emotionally, in terms of lifestyle or emotional baggage, how they treat you, etc.

Now I'm really making a mess of things, but consider your father (if you're a boy) or your mother (if you're a girl). This is the man/woman your mother/father ended up marrying. How much are you like your own father, if you're a boy, or mother, if you're a girl?





My ideal was always the kind of boy who would be artistic, think a lot, be able to both speak and listen very well, be amazing with dogs and children, love books and be the epitome of a gentleman. He'd treat everyone well but somehow treat me even especially well, and make me feel like the most beautiful girl alive without ever having to say he thought of me that way. However, I find that the kind of boys I tend to get involved with (not for very long periods of time, but intensely nevertheless) OR be immediately attracted to more often than not either 1) treat me like dirt, 2) want me to stop talking, 3) reduce me to my physical parts or 4) use me or bring me close only to push me away, while boys who do the opposite (treat me incredibly well, want very much to hear my side of things, look deeply into my eyes instead of my body and want to be near me) are almost immediately unattractive.

Part of that has to do with wanting what you can't get; I doubt many girls love the kind of guy who adores her too much; and this isn't always the case, especially since people are dynamic and rarely treat anyone in one uniform way forever and ever (I think everyone treats everyone else well or badly depending on the situation); but I find these things interesting? (You know you find yourself interesting too sweatingbullets.gif)

I don't see my dad as someone who does those 4 things, but I did when I was little, and something significant about the quote ^ way up there is that it is talking about a child. The child in the quote is a little older (nine) but to state the obvious, it's probably mostly between years 1-12 that our parents directly affect how we see other people. I think that if I were to be with someone in the long term, I would want him to be different from anyone I'd have ever known, because we'd learn so much more from each other that way. But I wonder whether the kind of attraction I've had in the past was based on a certain level of comfort -- when someone treats me in a way that isn't exactly ideal, I know what to do. I love my daddy more than anyone in the world and he is one of the most loving and incredible people I know, but a great deal of being able to recognize that (not to give myself undue credit, as it's something we reached together) has been due to my learning how to accommodate him. I guess I'm wondering how much other people see the parent-to-S/O connection though, because so much of my adolescence was devoted to figuring my dad out that I might be a weird case. (If I had spent more time figuring other guys out, maybe I'd be better equipped to be around those other kinds of guys as well?)

I'm excited to see whether anyone actually felt like reading this through wacko.gif
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#2 User is online   Lie 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 05:52 PM

Mother = physically = dark hair, dark eyes, thin
Girls I tend to fall for = physically = dark hair, dark eyes, thin
Mother = emotionally = distant, not overly-sensitive or considerate, strong, set in her ways, logical
Girls I tend to fall for = emotionally = distant, not overly-sensitive or considerate, strong, set in her ways, logical

I don't like to think too deeply into it, otherwise it'd probably creep me out.
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#3 User is offline   Seraphyx 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:13 PM

Comment Retracted, and I am now willing to participate in the discussion.

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#4 User is online   Lie 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:31 PM

QUOTE (Seraphyx @ Mar 17 2009, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I doubt that majority of L&R would have a remote idea what the Oedipus complex is.

Summary "Kill your father marry your mother" (Simplified).

So what is this point of this thread? It leaves me asking a bigger question, so what?

Kids don't read Sophocles in high school these days? Education is going down the mini cooperter.

What's the point of any thread here? Seems like an asinine question.
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#5 User is offline   Seraphyx 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:35 PM

-Edit
Comment Retracted. I apologize for directly attacking the thread.

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#6 User is offline   colloquy 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:45 PM

Seraphyx is somewhat right, this seems more like prose than an actual open-ended topic, but I'll say something anyway.

I think there has been a scientific/psychological study that people end up being attracted to people that look like their mother or father. All I can garner is perhaps there is comfort in familiarity, whether it's appearance or personality. Or, maybe it's to make up for a lost or troubled childhood by having a second chance. Some people even marry those similar to their father/mother because that parent is deceased.

There are some things that I agree with - mothers 'lose' their sons more than their fathers 'lose' their daughters, or at least that's the tendency. As to your father, you can't fixate on how your father treats you, it has to do with how your father treats your mother. Children observe their parent's relationship, and often learn from that - which is why children raised in abusive households are more likely to be abusive themselves. Your attraction towards 'bad guys' could be many things not related to your father, but I won't go into it because I don't want to psychoanalyze you.
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#7 User is online   Lie 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:47 PM

She did ask questions though, they're just buried under a lot of postulation.

i.e.
QUOTE (iridescent @ Mar 17 2009, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
how much of our parents do we really seek out in people of the opposite sex?

How much are you like your own father, if you're a boy, or mother, if you're a girl?


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#8 User is offline   joie.de.vivre 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:48 PM

Freud's Oedipus Complex is a psychological phenomenon when the son wants to "possess" his mother and "get rid of" his father. actually, there is more to the Oedipus Complex than just "marry mom/ kill dad". according to that theory, the boys will grow up looking for qualities of their mothers in their girlfriends ...as well as end up emulating traits of their fathers [instead of desiring to "eliminate" their father figures]. [the corresponding theory for girls is the Electra Complex]

anyway,
i'm not at all like my mom, except for a few qualities.
and, hmm, the guys i have crushes on are generally genuine, nice, polite guys ..which is like my dad's personality.
physically, though, there is no correlation between my dad and my crushes lol.

edit--

my school teaches Sophocles' Oedipus Rex and Antigone in sophomore year ... so the education of America's youth isn't *totally down the tubes
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#9 User is offline   bbyBoss 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:53 PM

I just got out of high school and for the past three years, we never even touched on the Oedipus Complex.
Just because we don't learn about what it is anymore, doesn't mean education's getting worse.
Not to mention some teachers might choose to teach it, but the majority won't, it's not in the curriculum.

To answer your question? I was never like my parents. Specifically not like my dad. My boyfriend is NOTHING like my dad, and I don't really wanna be anything near where my dad is. My boyfriend is has no relation with any aspects on my dad what so ever so yeah.

I wouldn't agree on observing. If you count feather duster beatings and all those other things as abusive, then in a sense I grew up in that environment, and the dirty noisy and tiny cramped environment in Hong Kong. But yet I don't really believe in whacking my kids silly with a feather duster. I observed my parents all these years, but the more I do now a days, the less I wanna be like them. I'm quite nice o_o So I would say..maybe it depends..just like everything else out there, where certain circumstances make the statement untrue or true.

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#10 User is offline   rachellee39 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:56 PM

I have a great relationship with my dad.
all the guys that I've liked, dated had personalities and traits very similar to him.

I'm exactly like my mom. We look alike and we have similar personalities.
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#11 User is offline   Seraphyx 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:06 PM

-Edit
Comment Retracted. I apologize for directly attacking the thread.

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#12 User is online   Lie 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:08 PM

QUOTE (Mooie @ Mar 17 2009, 10:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just got out of high school and for the past three years, we never even touched on the Oedipus Complex.
Just because we don't learn about what it is anymore, doesn't mean education's getting worse.
Not to mention some teachers might choose to teach it, but the majority won't, it's not in the curriculum.

I was being flippant (I'm only 23, so obviously I'm a product of "today's education" myself). That said, "the Oedipus Complex" is one of the terms most Professors will assume you know (in much the same way Freud's "Castration anxiety" or Lacan's "Mirror Stage" of childhood development are likewise assumed), and so will toss around without bothering to explain to you, at this point in your academic career.

QUOTE (Seraphyx @ Mar 17 2009, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They aren't seeking for help. This thread is based on seeking help, not just stimulating a cognitive response with provoking questions. This would be more appropriate in the "Ask me anything" thread.

In the end, this thread is still useless.

Were that the case, I still don't see any reason to point it out but to be unnecessarily rude.
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#13 User is offline   onhotwires 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:22 PM

Frankly, I learned what the Oedipus Complex is from the Simpsons. And if one hasn't read Sophocles, there is still the possibility of it being taught in classes like psychology once you get to Freud. So, unless the majority of soompi is middle schoolers... or people who don't watch the simpsons...then nvm.


Anyways, I think Turk from Scrubs sums this whole dating someone who's like your mother business. Well, I can't find the quote, but basically, you'll look for someone who's like your mother or father if they're amazing in the first place. But if they're crappy people and really just plain disagreeable, then people generally don't go pursuing people like that...unless they have issues or something. Really, I just think that the modeling-after-parent stuff is noticed much more often b/c it's freakier. But, I know plenty of people who date people who are nothing like their opposite sex parent.
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#14 User is offline   Seraphyx 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:26 PM

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#15 User is offline   joie.de.vivre 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:29 PM

@Seraphyx
and are threads like "Biggest Turn Ons" and "Your First Relationship" and "Worst Thing you did to your s/o" threads asking for help and relationship advice ?



i think the OP made an interesting topic about "love" and "relationships", and she did pose questions towards the end of her post
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#16 User is offline   Seraphyx 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:32 PM

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#17 User is offline   joie.de.vivre 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:50 PM

@ Seraphyx

i agree that the first post was so prose-like that the OP's original intent and purpose may have gotten lost.
but, i think this thread is generating more discussion [albeit in a very off-topic way right now ... lol] than those other "official" threads like "Biggest Turn Ons", in which people just post laundry lists of bullet points one after another. i think those threads are only so large because people just like posting easy lists ... i guess those kinds of threads are important because they're entertaining.
if l&r people here didn't know the oedipus/electra complex before, well, at least they have an idea and learn something from this now.

also, thank you and thanks for explaining your side, by the way
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#18 User is offline   colloquy 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 08:32 PM

I don't think that Seraphyx's post was that irrelevant - he's probably voicing what people aren't when they click on a topic in the L&R section to be confronted with a Hemingway quote and a big wall of text. I'm not saying that it's bad, because I enjoyed reading it for the most part.

But, I think there should have been more open endedness - this isn't the fanfic forum where somebody posts writing and people post comments about the writing. I noticed that the OP posts in the fanfic section often, and this thread made me go back and read one of her stories. Personally, I've never read that forum because I think it's strange how people put 'No lurkers/silent readers' and then either 'No bashing' and/or 'Constructive Criticism allowed'. I don't really think that people will appreciate soompi's version of Simon Cowell to post comments on their fiction, so usually I refrain from reading after seeing the variation of those two rules.
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#19 User is offline   Seraphyx 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 08:42 PM

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#20 User is offline   angels.disguise 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 08:57 PM


@seraphyx although i agree that this topic is off topic from what the L&R thread was intentionally used for, it still posed a question that deals with relationships.

to answer your question, no way in hell would i ever date/marry anyone like my dad or anyone CLOSE like him.
& the only thing i got from my mom was her hair and cooking skills.
not all relationships can be clumped together and put into categories.
Everyone might have their "ideal type" but if you go up and ask people
if the person they were dating were their ideal type, a large number would prob say no.

Although according to Freud, our Id, ego, and super ego control us, so maybe
its as they say, what we really want is buried very deep.

uh...i think i got off topic a bit.



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