[laeemo]

I wasn't sure where to post this topic but since it's got ALOT to do with God's love, might as well put it here to show how amazing His love is.

God vs Science

A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment.
"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question.
"Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.
"Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the
word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto
itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no
light."

[colloquy]

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

[Seraphyx]

Okay, so the student made an argument by twisting words and challenging a theory. Just because the student has future lawyer skills and the professor is terrible at arguing doesn't prove the existence of god. The brain has already been discovered it has been seen, felt and experimented on and I think there is more than enough to conclude that all humans have a brain regardless of how well the human utilizes the brain. God on the other hand has no physical evidence of his existence. I'll take the side of science over faith, True over Faith any day.

The argument about flaw can almost be countered, god is supposedly "perfect" yet humans created in his likeliness are completely flawed. A perfect being cannot create flaw. So humans are flawed so therefore god is flawed. God cannot exist within a paradox if he is perfect, so therefore god does not exist. That's pretty much the student's argument except the counter.

See where this goes? Absolutely no where.

And please quote where you take these stories from as a courtesy, I think not stealing is in the 10 commandments.

[Osakagrl]

Okay, so the student made an argument by twisting words and challenging a theory. Just because the student has future lawyer skills and the professor is terrible at arguing doesn't prove the existence of god. The brain has already been discovered it has been seen, felt and experimented on and I think there is more than enough to conclude that all humans have a brain regardless of how well the human utilizes the brain. God on the other hand has no physical evidence of his existence. I'll take the side of science over faith, True over Faith any day.

And please quote where you take these stories from as a courtesy, I think not stealing is in the 10 commandments.

I think you could have said it a little nicer. Just because you dont have faith in the lord, doesnt mean you have to be sarcastic and bash our faith. I myself and a Christian, but I believe faith and religon can walk hand in hand.

But what the student said is so right! I mean you say we know everthing for a fact, but fact of the matter is- we have made many discoveries and then years later retracted it because it was false. Humans DONT KNOW the whole truth. And just because scientists say its true, doesnt mean it is. We are all humans and we make mistakes.

[Seraphyx]

^

I was just emulating the student's style versus the professor. So yeah, it was more of a satire than sarcasm. Faith and religion can work hand in hand? Faith and religion are almost the same... did you mean science and religion? or science and faith? or faith in science in my case.

Sure we don't know everything, but we can't rely on a supreme entity to give us the answers. We must explore our curiosities and find them for ourselves. God isn't the answer to everything is my stance.

[colloquy]

^
^ There's no bashing going on there. No need to be overly sensitive. He didn't even allude to a specific faith, I mean, Zeus is considered a god. Even though it's probably referring to the Judeo-Christian faith, which exists in three forms...

Because scientists say it's true, doesn't mean it is? Well, that's true - but scientists spend years proving their hypothesis (and convincing others that their hypothesis is true, where other scientists do experiments to see if it's true...), and it takes decades of experimentation to make something into a Law, although there are many Theories with a lot of scientific backup. All religious people have is typically a book which they claim is fact.

I just don't think his conclusion makes logical sense. I could then say that hell is the absence of heaven, which isn't what people normally say. The professor is just dumb mini cooper, I mean he can't even cite evidence for evolution and X-rays to see the brain? And I guess everyone in this class is a freshman with no science courses under their belt - I mean, SHOCK, absolute zero is the absence of heat.. ~WOW~

[Teeeee]

Gosh, no offence.
But by saying you're Christian and whatnot is stating your opinion, but if an Athiest states her/his opinion, we're "bad people" and we're "bashing" "the lord".

=__=

[Poop-Shoop-A-Loop]

Moving a topic that is banned from General Discussions to another forum just because it doesn't have that same ban is a no-no. I am going to close this thread to coincide with the topic ban in General Discussions on religion & philosophy related threads. I don't want the same disputes to occur here in L&R as well.

Effectively immediately, threads discussing religion and/or philosophy will not be permitted.

While the General Discussion moderators were fairly lenient on allowing such topics to be created, repeatedly we have noticed a series of disputes erupting within each thread. It is clear that the issues in these threads are the same as issues of the now-defunct religion/philosophy forum.

There is far too much bashing that occurs from disagreements from opposing views. Whether a person is pro-faith or against it, both sides often end up posting something that will be refuted by another person (often in a very rude manner as well.)

As a result, we have decided to cease having threads discussing religion and/or philosophy.

Please do not post any new ones in the future as they will be closed immediately.

On a side note, there is a thread called What is Your Religion? (or something similar to that) in General Discussion. That thread is still available for use, but please post in it only for its actual purpose.