[DOVAHKIIN]

So is this decision a fixed one or are you opening this thread to ask our opinions as members/staff/mods and proceed from there?

Apparently the tribe has spoken. Sorry guys

[colloquy]

If the forum goes public, there is a large chance of it becoming popular among Koreans with the abundance of download links available here and the new law in Korea regarding the sharing copyrighted videos. There will most likely be legal issues then as a result.

I do doubt that Koreans will have to resort to an English forum for their internet downloading. I'm not going to cite these p2p sites (no, not talking about clubbox), but it is already extremely easy to download music/TV shows/music/games/etc from these websites, and with Korean downloading speed, it's extremely fast. I think they should be worried about their own doorstep in that regard.

[AiMango]

i really disagree with this decision.

As many members have pointed out it takes only a few minutes to register.

By opening up you run the risk of people just not wanting to contribute anymore because they value the privacy they get here and the sense of community.

and as for a 'big forum' giving you advice to open up to the public - what are their motivations for doing so. The problems opening up would cause legitimate contributing members to leave, lessening soompi's impact and point of reference. Not so great for business eh?

by opening up the forums you are changing this place from a community where people feel safe to one where everyone will look over their shoulder all the time and wonder who is watching them.

I think you are rushing into this and by doing so will erode at what makes the kpop culture tick - sharing and community and this is not the soompi i signed up to.

qft.

and other people mentioned increased bandwith. soompi is already a huge forum and by having non-registered users allowed to view the new forums, itll become chaotic at some point.

[naly26]

i think its a great idea, they can see whats really in the forums instead of just the links that are privated. I do have one suggestion, what about a HIDDEN option when posting, so if you want to upload links but fear people just taking them, they have to be a member. like as a poster, you have a dl link or link to share but you dont want non members to see, you can have the option of keeping it hidden and only available to members who say 'thanks' or leave a message. this will let visitors to see what they want but cant really get it until they become a member, which is absolutely free. plus this will also be better for current members who tend to just take links without leaving a reply, they'll have to reply if they want a link

[Auntie Mame]

I agree with everyone else who has concerns about non-registered users having access to the links. And, I also agree that it's not labor-intensive or mind-boggling to register as a member.

The only confusing part may be having to register separately for the forum, in addition to the main site.

To be honest, I think one of the reasons that people on soompi are so well-have is because soompi is only opened to people that are serious about participating in the site. There are a lot of juvenile-minded people out there who get their thrills from screwing things up ... for the fun of it. And, not requiring registration leaves the door wide open to these jokers.

Thank you for soliciting and considering our input. Soompi and soompi-ers rocks!

[soomp!]

hello peeps!
if we didn't want to hear and consider your responses, this thread would not have been open to replies, so please try not to jump to conclusions ^^;

if you have responded to this thread with any amount of concern, i'd really appreciate that you take the time to read my response thoughtfully, as i've read every one of yours.

first off, you guys have made a lot of valid and well-thought-out points. in the meantime, we will hold off on opening up the k-drama forum, given the issues that have been raised, until we have a plan that fairly addresses as many of your concerns as possible/practical.

it will be difficult to respond to every single point that has been raised, but i hope that the following clears up a lot of the questions -

1. Guests will definitely NOT be able to POST, just read. to post anywhere, you must be a registered member.
2. SOOMPI historically - why i started this joint in the first place

i started SOOMPI in 1998 because of the total lack of information about k-pop in ENGLISH. i had the passion, and i had the time. i laboriously translated articles from magazines and korean news sites with my mad 2nd-generation korean skills, scanned and edited all the photos in the magazines i purchased, bought all the latest cd's to review and upload for people to listen to - all this for fellow-fans who otherwise would not have access to these things. did people 'steal' my hard work? of course! did i still do it? of course!

as SOOMPI continued to grow, the vision has always remained the same. COMMUNITY was the result of like-minded people coming together around the mutual love of k-pop. this, however, does not mean that all of these people were able to contribute with translations or photos, or even with discussion. whether it be from shyness, or not feeling like they had anything 'important' to say, it didn't make them any less a part of the community. in fact, most of the SOOMPI-ers i've met in real life are "lurkers", and they are just as much a part of the SOOMPI family as anyone else.

yes, i am concerned that people will just re-post translations without crediting. yes, i am concerned that there may be 3rd-party-hosted image bandwidth issues* (see below). yes, i am concerned about the health of our own servers and user experience as we open our content to a bigger crowd. but what i am not concerned about is losing the sense of the SOOMPI community, because that is what you make of it, and if you've responded here, you are probably a die-hard member who has SOOMPI blood running through your veins. of course i'm sad to read that some of you will stop contributing here if guests are no longer required to login to read a particular forum, but i hope that you will reconsider. like i said, my goal for SOOMPI has always been K-POP FOR THE MASSES (though of course you are always entitled to your own opinion ^^).

also, if the forums are open, we're hoping that SOOMPI members will get more credit for their work, not less. right now, when something is 'stolen', only the SOOMPI community knows because they are the only ones who can see it. but once its open, everyone will know if something came from a soompi member first, not just our members, so it makes it more likely it will be properly credited. and you can speak up as well. if you see something posted on a blog, etc, without proper credit, then leave a comment and say "not cool, you should give credit to the person who did that!". or you can PM julanrouge with the info and she'll REGULATE! :ninja:

3. Regarding staying relevant:
thanks to the Hallyu wave, interest in korean pop culture has been on the rise for the last decade or so, and now that everyone and their mom can create a blog/website, k-pop sites have been springing up faster than you can count. we think this is great, as it's bringing awareness and content to a wider audience. at the same time, just like a blog isn't the best way to foster a community, a forum/bulletin board is not always the best way to contribute and/or consume information, which is why we want to provide the tools to make your activity on SOOMPI more streamlined and easy-to-use, using the web technologies available to us today.

for example, it makes no sense for anyone to have to comb through 20,000 posts to see all the pix and news about their favorite celeb or drama, or for the thread owner to go through all the pages and create an index on the first post (or even worse, giving someone else your password so they can update your post). i mean, that kind of commitment is amazing and admirable, but it's clearly not the best way to make such high quality information accessible. we are re-creating the main site to address these types of issues. same with fanfics, same with stores, same with performers & artists. a forum-system is simply too antiquated to deal with some of the needs of SOOMPI and what it's become, though this is not to say that the forums are useless. they are still great to discuss specific topics and have a special spot in our community, but they no longer meet the needs of SOOMPI as a whole. so we want to diversify the site features - keep the forums awesome for those people who are hard-core forum users, and build some additional features for people who would prefer not to comb through hundreds of posts to find 10 pictures or updated concert information. we won't be changing much in the forums, but we will be bringing some of the main site features into the forums and some forum threads will be featured on the main site. hopefully it will be the best of both worlds (that's what we are aiming for!).

also, if we fall behind technologically, people will eventually move on to the newer and easier-to-use sites, leaving us not only irrelevant tech-wise, but in the sphere of k-pop as well.

Q: Why do we even need to rebuild the main site and upgrade the servers? why don't we just stay as we are, with 99% of the traffic in the forum? A: Because the internet isn't the same place it was eleven years ago when i started, and forum traffic alone can't pay the server bills.
Q. Why do we want/need more people to come to SOOMPI?
A: besides the obvious reason of spreading the k-pop love (which is reason enough, right?? ^^v) -

short answer:
ECONOMY + SERVER COSTS = :'(
we cannot afford to keep SOOMPI alive given the current ad market (economy) and our current server costs. it's gotten to the point where it's not big enough to make enough money to cover the bills, but it's too big to stay on servers we can afford. this is a serious issue -- there is no 'happy medium' in this case. if we stay on the current server system, our daily downtime will just increase over time.

as you (should) know, we are in the process of rebuilding the main site, which includes a major server upgrade, in hopes that it will take SOOMPI to the next level in terms of usability and appeal to the growing k-pop audience, which in turn will bring in more revenue to keep us going. with our current setup, it's super slow in the evenings when everyone's online, and we must take the site down every night for backups. with the new system, it will be faster for everyone, and we won't need to go offline every night. however, each upgrade is increasingly costly, with substantial setups fees and overlap-time with the old servers, on top of the significant increase in monthly fees (~$5000 per month starting in June).
Q. What about the FRIEND OF SOOMPI (FOS) money?
A: a lot of people love SOOMPI, and want to support us. we thank them for all their amazing support! but the reality is that on average, FOS covers less than 5% of our current monthly costs.
LOOKING FORWARD: we'll continue to update you on what's going on regarding the new launch. we are still aiming to open BETA at the end of may/early june, and hope to launch sometime in JUNE (more info here).

We will move forward with opening up only the KOREAN MUSIC FORUM for VIEW-ONLY to guests next week. we will let them view images for starters, but if we see a lot of 'exceeded bandwidth' messages, we can turn off photos for guests. (*and on a side note, we are hoping that with the new launch, we will be able to host photos directly, which will solve the bandwidth issue for all new photos). i'm totally open to hearing any concerns regarding this, as the majority of the replies were k-drama related.

thanks to everyone who read this far! apologies if your specific concern was not addressed, or glossed over. no disrespect intended - feel free to reassert any points missed.

-s

[lovesbride]

As long as the art and fic sections stay closed, I'm okay ~

[*alodia*]

Been reading here but didn't post any comment since i'm not sure how to react...

Part of me feels bad... being an active member in the Drama Thread... just like concerns of the other peeps here... random people stealing posts (info, translations, etc), hotlinking (argh!!!!!! at the moment, even fellow soompiers are hotlinking pictures resulting to exceeding bandwidth, what more if it's open to the public), other drama soompiers holding off sharing stuff, goodies and thoughts thinking the entire world can see it casually.
I've been comfortable sharing stuff in the drama threads because i feel secure that at least only registered members can read it. Some of us were able to get consent from Korean fan cafes to re-post exclusive stuff from them here in soompi because they know it's 'for registered only' community. And the list goes on...

Part of me sees soompi's point... the main reason for this website in the first place is to spread kpop to the world. Plus more people means more "income" opportunity. The more money soompi can generate means a better and more established place for us to stay (argh! remember the 2005 crash?). And we have stayed here in soompi, feeding our kpop addiction with tons of goodies at no cost at all. Where in the world can you get as much for free? If not for soompi... i don't know... so who are we to deprive soompi of such oppurtunity to make our home a better place...

But then, it goes back to point number 1, feeling a little scared with idea that soompi is opening to the whole world (my imageshack account but wow to the idea of soompi hosting the pictures!!! ha! when the time comes, hotlinkers shall eat their hearts out).

Reading soomp!'s post today makes me more at ease though. Knowing that they are really doing their best in weighing things and considering our opinions. Finding ways to make things work the best possible way.

So, nonetheless I gave my trust to soompi... Whatever the final descision will be, let's just help each other out. I'm sure soompi will not let us down and will back us up in case things won't work.

for example, it makes no sense for anyone to have to comb through 20,000 posts to see all the pix and news about their favorite celeb or drama, or for the thread owner to go through all the pages and create an index on the first post (or even worse, giving someone else your password so they can update your post).

i just have to quote this though... --> bullseye to me (both points)...

[dropdeadbarbi]

I'm all about spreading the Hallyu wave. It think it's a good idea to help promote the Korean Culture. Bandwidths will exceed and photos will not be credited, but people will have to adjust to the changes. Changes are for the best and I believe that there will be more Soompi-ers because of it. People get sucked in, I was one of them.

[j00n]

I'm assuming un-registered people will be able to read but not post. Otherwise prepare for SPAMMERS. Oh and exposing links will result in the majority of them being closed for copyright infringement.

[kdsnabi426]

ECONOMY + SERVER COSTS = :'(
[/b]we cannot afford to keep SOOMPI alive given the current ad market (economy) and our current server costs. it's gotten to the point where it's not big enough to make enough money to cover the bills, but it's too big to stay on servers we can afford. this is a serious issue -- there is no 'happy medium' in this case. if we stay on the current server system, our daily downtime will just increase over time.

Well if it came down to soompi having to be closed down because of too high server costs versus opening a couple forums up to public, I'd definitely go for the latter. Sure there are risks, but I think the reward of Soompi being able to stay online, become more popular, and spread more love for Korean pop culture is greater. I say go for it!

[julanrouge]

I'm assuming un-registered people will be able to read but not post. Otherwise prepare for SPAMMERS. Oh and exposing links will result in the majority of them being closed for copyright infringement.

As soomp! said in her update post, unregistered guests would NOT be able to post. It would be read only access.

[ooxstacee]

Hm, I would say it's a good idea, but not 100%.
Maybe not even 80%. x___x
There'd be a lot of hotlinking going on, resulting into broken images, haha.
Hopefully there won't be much of that.
We'll just have to see.
I say let's give it a month or so and decide from there.<3
Yay for Soompi! :D

[soonjap]

i am ok with this decision and i think its am important one to make sure soompi stays relevant to the growing world of korean pop entertainment. the internet is becoming an open place and everyone shares information online. i think if soompi stays closed up, it will start falling behind. to stay closed is almost like not keeping up with the times.

Really? I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Every Korean internet forum/community website is for REGISTERED users only. I'm Korean-American but Korean speaking and literate and whenever I try to access any Korean fan-based forum, it asks that I register first. And Korea is THE leading country with the highest rate of technologically saavy people in the world. However, I will preface the statement by saying that I DO understand Soomp's need to GROW the business aspect of running this forum, which is an entirely different issue altogether.

all the comments against it makes me wonder - why do people contribute to soompi? i think the reasons are many, but i always thought its because fans wanted to share their knowledge and passion with others. i never thought soompi was a country club or an invite only crowd - so wouldnt we want to keep sharing our knowledge with everyone? if i translate something, i dont only want 10 people to see it - i want anyone who is interested to read it. but does that put me in the minority?

I don't think that those of us who post on this forum and share information do so because we feel entitled or that we feel like we belong to a clique. We do it because basically, it's a fun place to share our enthusiasm for the various Korean dramas, music and whatever else we enjoy and we'd like to share with other people. And I don't think the issue for those of us who translate is necessarily the NUMBER of people who read what we post. The real issue and concern that many of us are raising is the FEAR that the translation that DOES get posted may be taken without permission, and that although this practice doesn't necessarily guarantee that it won't happen amongst our own closed community, it nevertheless helps us feel safer that at least there's a controlled medium that may LIMIT the number of instances of it from happening. And I post the translations, not because my objective is to make sure it's read by a lot of people but because I love the particular show or movie or music or whatever it is and I want to share that with others. Maybe I'M in the minority to not care how many people read my translations or not. I just do it because it's fun and I like to help others who may need it to enjoy the same show, too.

ok one more lastly:) everyone says creating an account is not a big deal, but i can think of a zillion times someone sends me a link to see something cool. i click on it and it requires a log in. so i stop. and i think that is pretty common. creating an account, as easy as it seems, does stop people from visiting websites. and i think soompi is such a good site, it would be a shame to hide it from the world =p

Yes, it IS common. But I don't think they do it just to keep people out. They too, are concerned with people taking things that don't belong to them and then distributing them or reposting them elsewhere without permission. But as I've stated before, I understand Soomp's concern and need to raise money to increase revenues to keep this great site going. Maybe I'm just being too naive in wishing that it could happen without making it public. The main point for me, I guess, is that regardless of what community we want Soompi to be, we really can't spread the love of K-entertainment WITHOUT translators. That's the bottom line. And I'm afraid that once it goes public, translators may feel more vulnerable (whether this is actually justified or not) and hesitate to post anything, which, in my opinion, defeats the purpose of spreading such love for most things K-entertainment world wide.

Regardless of what happens, I am a firm supporter of Soompi and I wish all of us the best in future endeavors.

[cutiepingu]

WOOHOO~~~~ great!! ...anyway its a benefit 4 those who arent allowed to join a website like tis!!

[Mardi09]

so the Korean Music forum is opening up to the guests...Well I think that's okay. I don't see many guests roaming the K-music forum anyway. Or at least not yet. That's okay. Hopefully my underrateds'll get more attention? I still feel a bit uneasy about it but trying it out won't hurt.
Thanks for all the hard work. It's tough but I know it's for the best.
Good luck!~

[hireshi]

I think also it is a great idea to share the Korean community with the world! However, I would have to disagree on your choice with the pictures. Since as you said yourself, people could just steal them anyway. But I guess its no more unsafe then than what it is now, since soompi has over 200,000 members.

[saharial]

Soomp thank you for that explanation and for being honest and upfront on the reasons why you want to make this change
I think opening up the kmusic only for starters is a good way of testing how things go and will ensure no nasty surprises!

thanks for listening to all our concerns and shring your reasons as it puts the change in a whole new perspective and one we can have a proper understanding and sympathy for ^^

[KIM_SAYS:]

Really I think you have the same problem (DL-ing links and not crediting photos) regardless if guests are able to view the forums or not. Because once you register, you may choose to NOT post at all and just steal people's stuff. In that case, isn't being a registered user just for links/photos and not posting at all the same thing as being a guest? I'm looking through the member list right now, and there are MANY people with 0 or very few posts. I think a lot of these people registered just to view the music/drama forums since they didn't have access to them as guests. Like why would you take the time to register without the intent to post at all? Because in my opinion, if you want REALLY want to be a part of this community, you register to post and join in on discussions/ask questions.

Overall I think this is a fine idea. Sure there's an increased risk of unknown people downloading stuff, but if you're uploading them, you should be aware that these things will happen and take more precaution (again, even if you're member, you don't have to post at ALL and you'll still be able to download stuff). As for photos, that's also the uploader's responsibility to take more precaution and watermark them.

[julanrouge]

Really? I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Every Korean internet forum/community website is for REGISTERED users only. I'm Korean-American but Korean speaking and literate and whenever I try to access any Korean fan-based forum, it asks that I register first. And Korea is THE leading country with the highest rate of technologically saavy people in the world. However, I will preface the statement by saying that I DO understand Soomp's need to GROW the business aspect of running this forum, which is an entirely different issue altogether.

Sorry, I have to disagree with the first point on a factual basis. All your other points, I totally respect as a difference as opinion although I think we are saying the same thing with point #2:)

But the first issue has actually be a major privacy and freedom of speech issue in Korea. Korean law requires real name registration for every single site hosted in Korea - this is to maintain surveillance over internet users. This has led to clashes between Google/YouTube and the Korean government as Google is used to more American ideas of free speech - and YouTube has basically turned off video upload and commenting to any user with S.Korea set as their country of residence to avoid having to comply with this law. This has also lead to an increase in "cyber exiles" in Korea - Korean internet users who are protesting this level of government censorship.

8 or 10 years ago, Korea was the leader with online technology - Cyworld, Ohmynews, I Love School (an early Facebook) and other awesome Korean sites were making waves internationally. But over the past 5 years, the Korean online startup world has stagnated - partially because of laws like this and other issues that have made it hard for small Korean websites to grow. Korea does have one of the highest levels of broadband penetration - but we have lost the position of being top for online innovation - that award pretty much goes to Silicon Valley, Israel and Japan now. :/ I have been personally working with some Korean startups to help reverse this trend, but until the law is changed, there is a huge civil rights issue that they have to deal with. In the mean time, I keep trying to support Koreans and Korean sites cause I still LOVE Korea!!!