[colloquy]

i think that you're taking some cheap shots at her.
she's not saying that ppl can't get in touch with their ethnic roots.
in fact, she is encouraging it.

but, she is looking at the reality that what *some* korean-americans see as "real" korean culture is actually not.
those people focus on frivolous things and think that their koreanness is giving them a pass to interpret korean culture as they please.

honestly, i came across the same types.
they were certainly proud of being korean-american. but in korea their pride took a hit.
rather than try and learn more about the language and culture, they spent time drinking, calling the locals "fobs" and patting themselves on the back for knowing some korean swear words.

An excellent point. Maybe I'll try to embellish on this, so EAU may understand it better.. but it may be difficult, as I'm not the most eloquent and I find this kind of hard to explain if you haven't experienced it first hand.

I actually believe it's more important to learn the history and Confucius/Buddhist philosophy of a country than the language. Of course, one learns many important cultural things from language, but it's easier if you know the history and philosophy. The difficulty that many Asians from America, whether they be mixed or all Asian, is that their parents don't really teach them the entire truth about it. It's not really something that can really be taught, imo, it more has to do with you teaching yourself, seeing it for yourself first hand, and your personal philosophy in life. Most of us are influenced by Western ideologues - the Greek philosophers, Christianity, etc. Eastern thinking is more than a bit different.

Once I understood Buddhism, then it became easier for me to understand and even accept aspects of Japanese/East Asian culture. For example - the importance placed on beauty. Why beautiful men are preferred over muscular men. In ancient Buddhist writings, they said (rather vaguely, like usual) that beauty is to be placed above all other things. If you have beauty, then you have power. Of course, you can interpret this in a variety of ways, but the easiest translates into physical looks. Also, it's easier to understand Japanese works like manga if you know Confucius and Buddhist thought, although it's not necessary I suppose.

Picking on her point a little - For example, You can't just watch a Korean TV show, eat Korean food, speak Korean with your family and then and expect to know everything about the culture. Sure - I can tell that Koreans like tragic love stories, but I doubt that's really getting to the core of things. You'll notice and get better understanding if you have the basic foundation of the culture, which starts with the history. Not to mention dramas/movies is hardly an accurate representation.

[F999KR]

Some aspects are more important than other to me, but overall, very important

[melkimx]

i skimmed more than read... but from what i can tell, i agree with ginger and little mixed girl. actually, i think little mixed girl and i probably knew the same types of people in college -- the korean americans who were born in new jersey or michigan, weren't fluent in korean, but were somehow all about korean pride the moment they set foot on campus. you know, i didn't see any of them "returning" to their "homeland" after graduation and giving up their US citizenships. the most they ever did was spend a summer in korea amongst other korean americans, drinking and partying it up. so yeah, personally i make my own judgments as to whether people are really asian or asian american, regardless of what they tell themselves, but i would never say anything to them. it's their identity, and it really is their own choice. people probably secretly think i'm whitewashed, and that's their right too.

i'm pretty sure that answered nothing in the original post. sorry.

[little mixed girl]

Again, the U.S, founding fathers philosophy blah blah blah.
You seem like you want everyone to accept the mainstream "colorblind" U.S culture. Only people who don't have connections with their heritage want this.

i'm only going to respond to this point, because the rest is just "whatever".

nowhere in my post did i say that people *should* totally assimilate and forget cultural things that are important to them.
i also never said that the US or mainstream US culture is "colorblind".

what i did say is:

- people with a stronger connection to a foreign culture are going to be more apt to feel the need to preserve it.

- a person of a certain race who's ancestors have been in the US for many generations is not going to know the racial culture of their ancestral homeland, and, there shouldn't be an expectation that they would.

- passing on cultural beliefs, etc is totally cool, but, what is being passed down is going to be incomplete.

and to add, many thoughts and beliefs are shaped by schools, friends and our surroundings.
you can try to replicate what you can in a foreign place, but it's not going to be anything near the real thing.

if you didn't get it, i totally respect and encourage people to connect with their ethnic roots.
maybe you didn't mean for it to come off that way, but your post sounds like it's judging people who aren't as "in touch" as you are.
and that asian americans and other minorities who are not as "in touch" with their "asianness" as you are are somehow inferior.

the girl with the "that's so asian" quote definitely would have made me raise an eyebrow, but, if she's not into it, then so be it.
if someone said "i want to be a part of that dragon" to me, i would have been like "wtf?" too...

[HaplessChild]

So say someone is mixed race/ ethnicity? What do you call yourself then? What are you supposed to hand down? And then what when their children are even more mixed? What do you hand down then? What do you call them?

My father is half native american and half black. My mother is white with parents from puerto rico and grandparents from spain. If I were to have children with my chinese boyfriend what then? What language are we expected to hand down? What ethnicity are we supposed to tell our child to call him/ herself?

English. American.

So, why would you expect more from anyone else?

[SongBird]

What is your race/ethnicity?
Asian.

When you have a kid, will you raise him/her the way your parents raised you?
No. My parents weren't bad people, but parenting just wasn't for them. They did however wanted all of us to be good people and that I will try to instill in my own kids. I would show my kids more love and support for whoever they are and whatever they want to become. Honestly, I really didn't get enough of that as a kid from my parents nor did my older sisters. When my brother was born, it was me who raised him giving him the love and support that I never got. His view of life is much more positive and he is a better person than I am (it's hard to explain) and that makes me proud of him.

Will you teach them the traditions and values of your ancestors and family?
Culture and traditions of where I came from, yes. Culture dies when we don't pass it on. I just want them to know and get a sense of their roots, especially growing up in a society where Asians are almost always portrayed... well... misleading stereotypes.

If you can't speak the language of your race, will you make an effort to learn it more? Will you teach your future children?
I can speak my mother tongue, but I wouldn't force it onto my children. My younger brother can barely speak it and that is okay with me. However, there are studies that shows kids growing up bilingual have better cognitive abilities so I would want to help my kids to have a bit of an edge. But as they get older, it's up to them if they want to keep it or not.

If one of your families belief comes into conflict with yours, how do you respond? Where do you draw the line?
Well, I am in favour of allowing people to be themselves and believing in anything they want. The conflicting family member can have his or her own opinions. As long as no one's life is hindered or made to feel uncomfortable openly ie. someone in my family identifies as being gay and another family member is homophobic, as long as no hate speech is given or is made to feel deliberately uncomfortable, it's all cool with me.

I can identify with the "so Asian" comments. I was one of those kids who was like that. I never wanted to speak my own language, eat Asian food... I never liked hanging out with the Asian kids in my school. For some reason, I felt like I was cooler having white or black friends. I was young. Growing up in a small town where I had never learned about my own background other than the European settlers, Western history, watching only Hollywood movies and so on... I wasn't proud of my own origin because there wasn't much to be proud about. Now that I am older and actually know more, I think differently. I am not saying that we should walk around with flags from our motherland and act ignorant or that we should be stupidly proud of our "race" (ie. KKK). This is an outdated concept now that we can trace back mankind's ancestry to one continent. I just feel a little more "rooted" learning that my great great grandfather was a warrior before his son became a successful businessman or learning that one side of my family migrated from China. It makes me feel like I have a history. And the language thing, it just feels good to know more. I also really want to pick up another language.

[kissez*]

What is your race/ethnicity?
Asian.

When you have a kid, will you raise him/her the way your parents raised you?
No. There's nothing wrong with the way they raised me... I just don't agree with it, lol.

Will you teach them the traditions and values of your ancestors and family?
Sure thing.

If you can't speak the language of your race, will you make an effort to learn it more? Will you teach your future children?
Of course.

If one of your families belief comes into conflict with yours, how do you respond? Where do you draw the line?
I'd argue it until I'm red in the face. I do it all the time anyway. I have problems with authority figures, especially when the only reasoning they have is, "I have seniority over you therefore I am right."

[ginger]

So people should be denied their right to get in touch with their heritage because they were born overseas?

Of course not! I definitely think that, if they want to, it should be encouraged to research it and know it. However, as others below have pointed out, a lot will go on and on about how "proud" they are to be Asian or Korean, when they really know a handful of pop singers and internet slang. When it comes down to the actual history and culture, many that I've met have come off as uninterested or bored. It just gets irritating to go to a bar and hear people with crappy Korean and great English go off about how "Korean" they are, when the waiters are rolling their eyes and wondering when these jerks are going to go to another bar.

A lot of Asians, in general, seem to very much deny that they are Americans. I know that they are proud of their blood, but they were never raised in their "motherland." So many Asian teens who watch Korean dramas and talk about how awesome Korea is would absolutely balk if they actually had to live here. It's not a cakewalk filled with shiny Korean celebrities and Hello Kitty. They're making assumptions basing so much of their "pride" off something they've never experienced, just seen through someone else's eyes.

Before, as a teen, I went through an "Asian pride" phase. I may have lived in the US, but I was born in Korea, dammit. I was different than the other "Americans." I was proud of it. But over the years, I realized that...this is the country that made me. The freedoms I enjoyed as an American were ones that I wouldn't have enjoyed in the same way if I'd lived somewhere else. What did I owe Korea, I wondered. How am I really Korean when I don't speak Korean and I never grew up with that heritage? A small part of me may be Korean, but I speak English. I'd rather be tan than white. I don't have an innate love for cutesiness and ribbons. I disagree with many of the Confucian elements of Korean society. I've gradually just accepted myself as an American. I may be a little different, but aren't all Americans a little different from each other? We are the melting pot. But our upbringing has made us American--American school, English language, American government, American systems, etc. It doesn't mean you have to LOVE America or every little detail about the lifestyle, but...it's impossible to live in a country for your whole life and not have been shaped by it.

-ginger

[[A][C][E]]

i too was also born in korea and moved to australia when i was 1..
so i have no recollection of any memories whatsoever in korea and all my life has been here in australia....
lol at this....but alot of koreans (not all but alot) carry that same korean pride stuff here just like what you've described in america.....

I notice at my uni i'll see or hear koreans trying too hard or speaking loudly in korean where its obvious their trying
to get noticed for being korean around others.....trust me i can tell because they talk about the worst most random topics,
(especially about being korean, even though i know that the guy has been living in australia all his life)
pretty much anything that pop ups straight away, anything to get noticed for being korean and they just won't shut up...

i''m not really a big fan of kpop/kdramas, but i think alot of people nowadays associate this with korea.
so when people think korea they think celebrities like dbsk or wateva.....
just walking around i'll see korean guys dressing up like A-class korean celebrities walking to uni lectures LOL.
as in like full pimped out suits with vests and stuff.....i'm not saying dressing up is bad but to uni? daily?

i can speak some korean but i don't see the need to show off being korean in anyway....
i don't have many korean friends... most my friends are white and i couldn't ask for any better friends than i have here...

prove me wrong....but alot of the asians guys here aren't generally accepted as much within white communities or go off and form their own group consisting of all asians and therefore they turn towards their heritage and all that azn pride stuff...
I do love australia. However it is still adapting to all these cultural differences and mixed diversities so there is alot of racism happening at the moment where as America has already become more adapted...

there was no real point to my post i guess, now that i read over it.....
i forgot the point i was trying to get across while i was busy typing away...lol
but in conclusion that korean pride stuff has gotta stop.

[Temoin la Nuit]

You seem like you want everyone to accept the mainstream "colorblind" U.S culture. Only people who don't have connections with their heritage want this.

+1

This thread is getting too convoluted for me to respond in-depth, but I thought I'd QFTMFT.

[HaplessChild]

I don't think the point was that we need to be colorblind or that there is anything with acknowledging your hertiage and background. Just that, for example, it would be really silly for me to run around Washington DC calling myself castillian, calling myself Spanish-American and pitching a fit at other Latinos that don't claim Spain when technically just about everyone that speaks spanish has a spanish ancestor. I speak spanish, spanish is in my blood, but I was born in Puerto Rico. That doesn't make me Spanish, that makes me AMERICAN.

Being American is being of mixed background/ culture. There's no need for the hyphen. It's redundant. Less than 2% of the people in the country are Native AMERICANS. You don't hear Americans of Scottish, English, German, French or Italian running around with that hyphenation unless they just got here. Even latinos don't run around calling themselves Bolivian American.

To be honest, once Asians have been in this country a few more decades, I think this need to hyphenate will die out just like it did with whites.

[SongBird]

prove me wrong....but alot of the asians guys here aren't generally accepted as much within white communities or go off and form their own group consisting of all asians and therefore they turn towards their heritage and all that azn pride stuff...

"here" as in OZ or "here" as on soompi?

I am in the opposite situation. I only have a few Asian friends and the majority of them prefer Western food, date anyone other than Asian and the likes. Interesting enough, my good friend's mom wants him to date a white girl, marry her and whatnot so she could have mixed grandchildren. My mom seems to be encouraging this too seeing that this is the kind of social circle that we live in.

[[A][C][E]]

"here" as in OZ or "here" as on soompi?

I am in the opposite situation. I only have a few Asian friends and the majority of them prefer Western food, date anyone other than Asian and the likes. Interesting enough, my good friend's mom wants him to date a white girl, marry her and whatnot so she could have mixed grandchildren. My mom seems to be encouraging this too seeing that this is the kind of social circle that we live in.

here in OZ.....

well i just said most my friends are white and i only have a few asian friends.....
yes of course there are asians who have more white friends or may even not have any asian friends at all....
but the MAJORITY of asian guys here tend to form their own racial groups..because they don't fit in..
australia right now is going through an identity crisis...as i said is still adapting...

ok i honestly don't even know where this topic is heading....

so in conclusion...don't do drugs..

[-_-]

I don't think the point was that we need to be colorblind or that there is anything with acknowledging your hertiage and background. Just that, for example, it would be really silly for me to run around Washington DC calling myself castillian, calling myself Spanish-American and pitching a fit at other Latinos that don't claim Spain when technically just about everyone that speaks spanish has a spanish ancestor. I speak spanish, spanish is in my blood, but I was born in Puerto Rico. That doesn't make me Spanish, that makes me AMERICAN.

Being American is being of mixed background/ culture. There's no need for the hyphen. It's redundant. Less than 2% of the people in the country are Native AMERICANS. You don't hear Americans of Scottish, English, German, French or Italian running around with that hyphenation unless they just got here. Even latinos don't run around calling themselves Bolivian American.

To be honest, once Asians have been in this country a few more decades, I think this need to hyphenate will die out just like it did with whites.

What about people who call themselves Mexican American? Being in TX, and in a city close to the border this is a common identity.

And with people crossing over constantly, I doubt the phenomena or need people feel to hyphenate will die out.

[Grumpelstiltskin]

You seem like you want everyone to accept the mainstream "colorblind" U.S culture. Only people who don't have connections with their heritage want this.

+1

This thread is getting too convoluted for me to respond in-depth, but I thought I'd QFTMFT.

Looking at colorblindness in the U.S. like this is extremely simplistic. If subscribing to colorblindness means someone is not making enough effort to "connect to their heritage", then I don't think you appreciate complexities resulting from the mixing of cultures. As various people in this thread have pointed out, the notion of heritage is very very slippery and hard to define. Should Asian Americans be more American or more Asian? Which cultures should mixed kids follow? What about kids that were adopted?

Crossing cultural barriers is a product of so called "colorblindness" and it's a reality that people that don't have to face it don't like to think deeply about. I think the notion that the U.S. is completely colorblind is untrue, the threads about racism+affirmative action in this forum prove that and I think a lot of Americans are aware that their country isn't really colorblind at all. If you read any form of U.S. news media or are educated you would find that there are a lot of issues and disputes that happen over the issue of race/ethnicity. If allowing all these different groups to have a say in some way or another through the legal system or other channels is being "colorblind" , then so be it. While I don't condone parts of American culture like consumerism and obesity etc, I think it's a good thing to be taught to give at least the appearance of respect if not more when interacting with people not of one's ethnicity(lets face it, everyone's a bit racist no matter what).

I respect the fear of losing touch with one's culture because it's an inevitable issue that comes up from living in multiple countries. However colorblindness is not all bad, it creates an environment dedicated to making sure everyone treats everyone else with at least a modicum of respect and restraint. If colorblindness means I get a greater degree of respect of my person in the professional sphere and legal system in comparison to my "native country", then I don't see why people rag on it. Asian Americans born+raised in the U.S. are stuck in a catch 22 when it comes to issues of roots. In the eyes of their friends and relatives that live/spent most of their time in the non-Western country, AA's will never be "Asian" enough. Yet when AA's try to take the first steps of "getting in touch with their culture"(which may or may not including committing a lot of Asian faux pas in the process) not everyone encourages them or accepts them for doing so. I am a prime example of this. I am constantly told that I am not "Chinese" enough regardless of the fact that I understand how to act in front of my relatives, speak multiple dialects/write, have lived in China and am currently doing a Chinese masters program. How much "culture" do I need to ingest before I am considered a real Chinese? Although there are some basic requirements like language, in truth the list of requirements is never-ending, so it shouldn't surprise people when AA's do identify with their American identity. For me, so-called "bad' colorblind culture equals some degree of acceptance regardless of skin color/ type of cultural background which is much more comfortable than being openly excluded or criticized by people of "one's own culture" for being a hybrid of sorts.

Honestly participating in multiple cultures is hard. AA's of all sorts are all in tricky situations when it come to cultural stuff which is why I don't criticize people's choices for what they do or don't get out of their experiences with their heritage. We all want to fit in somewhere and the drive to identify with one culture or another or more is a strong manifestation of this desire, with very few exceptions, who am I to judge what way is "best"?

[HaplessChild]

What about people who call themselves Mexican American? Being in TX, and in a city close to the border this is a common identity.

And with people crossing over constantly, I doubt the phenomena or need people feel to hyphenate will die out.

If you were born in another country (like mexico) the hyphen is warranted.

[clockwatcher]

I live in Boston and people whose ancestors migrated to the states many generations ago definitely still call themselves Italian American or Irish American. In fact, more often than not, they simply refer to themselves as Italian or Irish.

And speaking to the other point about US have double barrel identities...

The main difference is that America is a country of immigrants. While people in other countries might not hyphenate their identities, within those countries, they still very much identify by their ethnic groups.

So yes, not Ewe-Ghanian but simply Ewe since tacking on the Ghana is redundant.

And in a country like England that has a large immigrant population, identity is becoming more an more like the US.

[Bebe_Ji]

What is your race/ethnicity?

I'm hmong and parents are pretty strict.. like really.

When you have a kid, will you raise him/her the way your parents raised you?

I would and I wouldn't. They way my dad raise us was in a way that made us not know about the real world. He wouldn't let us have friends or make phone calls to friends. No boyfriend! and we can't step out the house without adults. We can't even sleep over at family's house. Really my dad didn't raise us, mostly yelled. My mom was the one raising me and my sisters. All she want was us to focus on school, she would let us do this and that but only if my dad approve (which was no no no). I wouldn't do that to my kids. I would be a little strict but only because it's the best for them. like focus in school and not get distracted with fun. I do believe school comes before fun, fun later when finish studying.

Will you teach them the traditions and values of your ancestors and family?

yes I would! but I doubt my kids is going to be fully hmong. (i know i'll end up marrying my vietnamese boyfriend) so I'll teach both side of the family. As for the hmong side the traditions I find to be a bit stupid.

If you can't speak the language of your race, will you make an effort to learn it more? Will you teach your future children?

yeah I'll teach my kids hmong! lol

If one of your families belief comes into conflict with yours, how do you respond? Where do you draw the line?

depends on the belief. actually I broke one by not dating a hmong guy. >.< i end up dating a hmong enemy? LOl old histories.. histories will be histories, this is the future and it depends on the guy.

[`faded]

What is your race/ethnicity?
Chinese

When you have a kid, will you raise him/her the way your parents raised you?
there are teachings from my parents that I would use to teach my kid but at the same time incorporate my own teachings
and beliefs to my child..

Will you teach them the traditions and values of your ancestors and family?
yes I would..whether or not I marry someone outside my race or the same race..doesn't matter to me
I want my child to understand my culture and my traditions and values from my family..cause in the end
alot of them are good for them..which is why they're passed down

If you can't speak the language of your race, will you make an effort to learn it more? Will you teach your future children?
I speak the language but not very well..I wanna learn more but if I can't i will try and speak it to my future children and
maybe have them take classes to learn as well

If one of your families belief comes into conflict with yours, how do you respond? Where do you draw the line?
I will try to come to a compromise and understand where they are coming from and try to help them understand
where I come from..and maybe we can come to some sort of conclusion.

[-_-]

If you were born in another country (like mexico) the hyphen is warranted.

I should have expanded that a lot of my friends and classmates identify themselves as Mexican American and some were born here as first generation Americans, some second.

That's fine and dandy if someone chooses to id themselves as just "American" and nothing else, but if someone else chooses the hyphenation route, I don't see what's the big deal. Would you actually go out of your way and say, "hey you weren't born in Mexico, so stop calling yourself Mexican American.." ? Of course not, it's douchey and facetious.

Imo whatever people wanna call themselves it's all good. As for me, I wouldn't call myself just an American because overall it's very nondescript, vague and inefficient way to identify myself, especially if someone asks me a question about my heritage. By just saying American can mean a million different things in our cultural melting pot/ salad bar of a country.