[HSuke]

Sorry about my misleading title.

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One of my friend's grandfathers immigrated to the Bay Area twenty years ago has never worked. Yet, he gets a welfare subsidy of about $10K/yr. Even though the cost of living in San Jose is one of the highest in the nation, he's managed to trim costs to the point where he has been able to save $40,000 in his bank account. No exaggeration. His place is well furnished with new couches, a computer, and a new giant HDTV. In addition, most of his living costs are provided by the government.

I'm sure some of you know people in similar situations. What's your opinion of this?

EDIT:

Sorry, I should've reworded the title to apply specifically to the retired elderly.

Little mixed girl is right. There are a lot of background checks for people on welfare, and it's difficult to game the system. I should clarify that this situation is applicable to retired seniors and not younger families on welfare.

I don't know the details, but I believe my friend's grandfather hides the money by saving it as cash. Thus, there is no savings account involved (a somewhat bad idea considering inflation). This is similar to how rich folks hide their money in foreign (e.g. Swiss) bank accounts and incomes in fraudulent overseas companies.

In any case, even if he didn't hide his money or game the system, $10K/year is way more than he needs to survive. Living and health care are already provided-for. Considering that he's never worked before, it's an incredible cash giveaway. Everyone past the age of 65 in the US gets these bonuses from our social security taxes. Those who have retirement money have to use their hard-earned money. Those who don't ... just leech off others. Since society is not going to let people die or become homeless, there is no simple solution.

Do you feel that these base SSI payments are too high? Any suggestions?

[Subways]

I suggest the taxes on our income be reduced and the tax on purchasing goods increase. Its a totally glib thought I have no idea the consequences of this.

Some people seriously need welfare but like everything else there will be people that abuse it.

[GaeasX]

Not ALL poor, just the ones that know how to work the system. There are plenty of "poor" people out there who are working their asses off trying to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads (my family). I haven't heard of anyone in that situation so I'm really surprised to hear that, and more than a little upset. It's a little unfair although I do not know the circumstances in which he has earned that welfare and cover of living costs. O.o If he can support himself so well, he should get off welfare so other people who need it more can get some. Since the economy slide recently in America, my parents have seen/heard several families in Vegas living in parks and outside convention centers.

[little mixed girl]

One of my friend's grandfathers immigrated to the Bay Area twenty years ago has never worked. Yet, he gets a welfare subsidy of about $10K/yr. Even though the cost of living in San Jose is one of the highest in the nation, he's managed to trim costs to the point where he has been able to save $40,000 in his bank account. No exaggeration. His place is well furnished with new couches, a computer, and a new giant HDTV. In addition, most of his living costs are provided by the government.

I'm sure some of you know people in similar situations. What's your opinion of this?

i don't know anyone like that.

are you sure you, or even your friend knows everything about this guy's situation?

before i go there, first, being poor is not some fun boat ride in the man's dollar.
if you get welfare, you have to PROVE that you need it. not only that, but because of clinton's welfare reform act, there are a lot of things you have to do to KEEP it.

my mom is a social worker, so this is info i got from her:

first, you have to allow the government to have access to your bank accounts.
you have to report every one that you have at various intervals throughout the year, and along with that, what's in them.
unless you have a disability, you have to show that you are actively looking for work to get welfare.
that means that a few times a month, you have to report to a welfare to work office to look for work, and submit papers that show that you've been looking for work. along with that, you also have to take classes to get work skills.

if you are living in subsidized housing, you also have to let that place look into your bank account.
if you get a job, you have to let that place know. if they find out that you're working and haven't reported it, you can get kicked out.

if you are looking to get medicare/medicaid, then again, you have to allow them access to your bank accounts and such.

there's nothing easy or fun about being poor.

and the reason i ask if you know the whole situation is because if the guy is using government money to pad his account, then that's obviously illegal.
BUT, do you know what type of relationship he has with his relatives?
maybe they are the ones buying him things??

i had some neighbors in public housing, and they had a big screen tv, leather couch and other things. but that was stuff that they had before the guy became disabled. what's the point in telling them to sell their furniture to buy cruddy furniture because "poor ppl don't have stuff like that?"

[chilovesjj]

You're likely to get flamed with a topic title like that ^^;
You're right, there are some people who abuse the system and wind up getting loads of money from the government.
To the point that sometimes, they can even be better off than people who do go out and work.
But that's generally because they are screwing with the system somehow, to get more than they are actually entitled to.
Some aren't even entitled to any at all, but somehow manage to get it o.o (no idea how, as the post above explains you're meant to prove you need it)

A lot of people on welfare really can't work, for various reasons, and they really need that money.
And generally, if they're not cheating the government out of cash they're not entitled to, welfare doesn't usually add up to a huge amount of money.
Most people don't live a 'life of luxury' on welfare. You can't tar everyone with the same brush, it's only a minority who abuse the system.

I know a woman who is a university graduate and COULD work, but instead just fiddles benefits and doesn't bother working.
(So she doesn't have to pay back her student loans because she's unemployed, even though she's in her 40s now..)
I think she actually has 2 houses. o__0 But my mum won't let me shop her because her kids will go into care. She makes me angry.

[sylphid97]

I have mixed feelings on this. I see families who really need the government money to raise their family, but then I also see families who abuse the system, too. It gets me so mad that my tax dollars are helping some undeserving people.

The problem I see often (since I'm a teacher) is that the money is not being well spent. The community I teach in is generally a really low income area. Many of my kids are faaaaaaaaaaaaar below their grade level... They qualify for free/reduced lunch b/c their family does not make enough. Yet, instead of tutoring, I see them waltzing around school with iPods (nicer than mine) , nice cellphones (nicer than mine) , PSP (I don't even have one) , etc., and when I meet their parents it's the same. They're wearing their "bling" and they have their wireless headphones for their cell.

I know that the more members they have in their family, they more welfare they receive. Because of this, many of the students come from families where they have 7 or more siblings. This kind of makes me want to support the proposition that if a family is on welfare, they also need to be on birth control. I don't mind if they have 2 kids, but they need to make sure if they're going to have more, they have the means to support them on their own.

Gawd, it just irks me that I work more than 10 hrs a day and this is where my tax money is being spent. Again, I know that this is not always the case. I see some of my really good kids and am glad that their family is spending it wisely on them such as their education, clean decent clothes, etc.

[SongBird]

I don't think you got the whole story. That man could have work for cash or some other illegal method. But being poor and on welfare isn't easy or something you want to brag about. So no, I don't think the poor have it too easy. I think the people who just have to be born in the right family, inheriting bonds and loads of wealth have it too easy, never having to learn to work as hard as the poor maintaining part time jobs to help out the family or help pay for school. They have it way too easy.

[iridescent]

There are single mothers working three jobs on little or no sleep just to make sure their kids can go to school and have enough to eat (if even). I know you aren't bringing that specific group of "poor people" into discussion but I agree with those who said the thread title could have been worded differently. I also agree with those who say you might be missing part of the story -- like little mixed girl said there are things you have to do to get and hold onto welfare. Those who take welfare to their advantage exist, but those who survive with "plenty left over" are the exception, not the norm. (And even those who do take advantage of it aren't going to have that much of a gain.) I agree that there could be more things put into place to make sure people aren't completely riding on taxpayers' coattails, but not if they'll hinder those who genuinely/desperately need welfare from getting it.

On another note, for every one person taking advantage of welfare, there's probably another too ashamed to use it when they do actually need it, so while it's important to pay attention to what's going on I feel like the attitude that people who resort to welfare are being lazy or taking the easy way out is kind of harmful.

Being poor isn't ever fun or comfortable or easy. For many, relief's peaks are tiny compared to poverty's drastic lows. In cases like sylphid97 described where aid money is used unwisely, maybe parents see no other way to try to counter what suffering their children experience than to spoil them when the chance arises. That doesn't excuse what they do but it's not easy to be responsible when your life centers around a money game that you seem only to lose.

I don't think anyone really "has it easy" but that's another story

[-_-]

I'm sure some of you know people in similar situations. What's your opinion of this?

General answer is no, they don't have it easy. There are some people out there with real needs.

I'd be more in disagreement people abusing the disability system, especially for things like obesity. It would be pretty sweet to be able to sit home all day and stuff my face and still get a check every month. Just to add before someone says something about obese people having thyroid problems and it's out of their control... the fact is a very small percentage of obese people actually have hypothyroidism. And treating diseases that come with obesity is a huge drain on health care resources and public funds for those on Medicaid.

[suzic87]

I do think that all poor people have it easy, but I do think that their are some people that milk the system for all it's worth. I personally don't know the American benefit system. But their are definitely people who know that money is out there and they won't bother working but others like my parent's who work their asses for pennies get nothing cos they earn a little bit over the limit for support.

so like with most topics there us generally a for and against but to say that the poor have it easy is not true

[Tuffcore]

There's actually nothing "easy" about living off $10k a year. It's hard work. It's so hard in fact, your friend's grandfather might have been better off spending his efforts making more money instead.

[terrorist]

10k a year is very very little.

[BEBE_AN]

u gotta be kidding me, right? how old are you? the average number of medications that seniors take are around 10-15. imagine how much this would cost them monthly. some of them have to move into assisted living because they can no longer be independent. these places are costly. the place that i worked at costs about 2 grand a month. their health also deteriorates because of their age so they have more doctor's visits, which also costs money. that grandpa is probably a rare situation, so please do not base your assumptions on one experience. it saddens me for anyone to believe that $800/month ($10k/year) is more than enough for anyone, especially the seniors, to survive in the US.

[little mixed girl]

I have mixed feelings on this. I see families who really need the government money to raise their family, but then I also see families who abuse the system, too. It gets me so mad that my tax dollars are helping some undeserving people.

The problem I see often (since I'm a teacher) is that the money is not being well spent. The community I teach in is generally a really low income area. Many of my kids are faaaaaaaaaaaaar below their grade level... They qualify for free/reduced lunch b/c their family does not make enough. Yet, instead of tutoring, I see them waltzing around school with iPods (nicer than mine) , nice cellphones (nicer than mine) , PSP (I don't even have one) , etc., and when I meet their parents it's the same. They're wearing their "bling" and they have their wireless headphones for their cell.

I know that the more members they have in their family, they more welfare they receive. Because of this, many of the students come from families where they have 7 or more siblings. This kind of makes me want to support the proposition that if a family is on welfare, they also need to be on birth control. I don't mind if they have 2 kids, but they need to make sure if they're going to have more, they have the means to support them on their own.

Gawd, it just irks me that I work more than 10 hrs a day and this is where my tax money is being spent. Again, I know that this is not always the case. I see some of my really good kids and am glad that their family is spending it wisely on them such as their education, clean decent clothes, etc.

i just want to comment on this one.
again, you don't know that welfare is paying for their cell phones and stuff.
if you are poor, but have some family members (cousins, aunts, etc) that have a job, what happens is that they try to help the family feel less poor by buying them things.
and, a lot of people are smart shoppers.

there are a lot of places/ways to get nice things at a cheap price if you know how to find the sales.

when i was in university, there would be these clothing sales where brands like abercrombie and stuff would be sold because they were trying to get rid of stock or the clothes had some defects. one t-shirt could be as low as $1.

and while it might not be the best use of money in your eyes, sometimes if you get a little extra money, you want to buy something nice for your kids.
you might think "they should save even $1!!", but look at the society we're living in.
if you don't have some of those things that show that you have money, you are totally looked down upon.
so, not only are they on welfare, but society expects them to live like tattered clothed paupers because of it...and look down on them for both!

and, who knows, all those things could be borrowed, too.

[SkyLeaf*]

you might think "they should save even $1!!", but look at the society we're living in.
if you don't have some of those things that show that you have money, you are totally looked down upon.
so, not only are they on welfare, but society expects them to live like tattered clothed paupers because of it...and look down on them for both!

totally agree..

[MUGETSU]

People think people are poor because they are lazy, spend too much, etc.

Actually, that is probably only a small percentage.

What you don't learn in school can help explain it - social classes.

The type of family you are born in, depending on your social class, has a huge impact on your outcome. How you are born, the type of environment you grow up in, how you culturally understand the things around you, how you act, how you feel education helps you, your self esteem, etc. correlate to your social class.

They don't teach it in school when you are younger because of conservative lobbyists and publishers afraid of being called "Marxist".

However specific college courses will help you learn it if you choose them.

Also check these links out:

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies
* Study: More than 60 percent of bankruptcies are linked to medical bills
* Three-quarters of people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance
* Researcher: "You're one illness away from financial ruin in this country"
* Situation likely to worsen: study was done a year before recession
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/bankr...ref=werecommend

Sick Around America - Failing Healthcare
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundamerica/

^^ I was watching that show and there was this couple that had a premature baby and it cost them near 1 million dollars in hospital costs! However, the husband works for Microsoft which has generous healthcare plans. Imagine being without healthcare and having to pay such bills?

Might want to read the book - "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by Jame Loewen....he has a section on social classes.

Entitlements like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security will bankrupt this country in a few decades time, unless there is massive reform. However, it's political suicide to touch it. So either someone is going to lose their political reputation first (whoever is brave enough) or we'll keep going until we experience this massive failure and then try to fix it.

Watch this also....

Ten Trillion and Counting -
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tentrillion/

"Observers warn that the US' reliance on borrowing to fund essential programs is a dangerous gamble. For the 1st time, investors are beginning to question the ability of federal government to meet its growing financial obligations, and fading confidence can have dire consequences. "You might have a situation where there is one day when the government says we need to sell several billion dollars of bonds, and nobody shows," Eco reporter Greg Ip tells FRONTLINE. "No money to pay the Social Security checks, no money to give to the states for their Medicaid programs. Cut, cut, cut."

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The poor don't have it easy. Sure they are living on basic things because of welfare and stuff, but I'm sure they feel like their lives are still miserable compared to not being on it.

[Temoin la Nuit]

HSuke - I agree with you 100%.

The thing that people don't consider when they advocate "compassion", is that at the end of the day, someone has to foot the bill for it. For those who don't pay for the system, supporting it is all well and good, but rather meaningless.

The productive have no moral obligation to support the unproductive, and should have no societal/legal one, either.

[ayahuasca]

First off. I'm not american, I'm australian, so I don't know how your welfare system works, but I can presume that there are many common points.
One sight that hit it home how some people abuse the system was during the Macquarie Fields(MF) riots in Sydney some years ago. MF is in southwest sydney an area renowned for being a lower class area, populated heavily by families with multiple children, very young parents and many of them on welfare. The riots happened when police went in to break up a party that spilled on to the streets and all the kids, many of them underaged were drunk. After the riots, a news program interviewed some of the kids, 16-19 years old or so. They had the audacity to complain on national TV that they do all these things, drunk and disorderlies, disturbing the peace, etc because they had "NOTHING TO DO". Seriously, how hard can it be to get off your lazy !@!$% arses and go out and work for a retail store, or McDonalds or whatever.

The flipside is that I'm not averse to having my taxes pay to help someone in genuine need but these sorts of systems really need a serious overhaul. A lot of them have the "must be actively looking for work" clause. This is easily circumvented by getting any number of interviews and performing in such a way to be rejected out of hand. However this is still legally "actively looking for work".

My family ran through some hard times in the 80s but my parents worked day and night to put me and my siblings through the best schools regardless of how much it cost. When we were kids we saw our parents maybe a couple hours each day, often not at all because they were working so much. Sundays were probably the only day where we saw our parents longer than 2-3 hours. The 3 of us combined required annual school fees of ~A$25k. Despite their hardships, they never went on welfare and the three of us all managed to get through university, twice each.

So to all those who live off the hard work of the rest of us, GTFO your arse and get yourself a fricking job

[squishybear]

Yeah. Poor people have an easy life. I'm so very envious of them.

[Trungy]

I remember reading an NYT article about a Norwegian man taking money he gets from the government to buy heroine, and Norway has a socialist economy.

I'm pretty sure in every system where the government hands over money, someone somewhere is not using it proficiently. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Sort of the "one person shouldn't ruin it for the rest".