[Mannosuke]

I've had this dilemma for quite awhile involving quotations marks combined with other punctuation.
Consider the following:

(1) The title of this thread is "For the grammar folks out there".
(2) The title of this thread is "For the grammar folks out there."

I find (1) to look more natural than (2) for some reason, though a lot of people have been telling me (2) is the proper format (for some particular style that I'm not aware of. APA maybe?)

Now consider this:

(3) The password is "satiated".
(4) The password is "satiated."

Again, I've been told (4) is the proper way to write it, despite the fact that (3) looks so much better.

For the two sets of statements, which ones are grammatically correct?
Take them exactly as you see it, don't add any extra punctuation.

[iangel]

Oo O i have been told that between 1 and 2, 2 is correct..
but 3 and 4 is a weird case, cuz if u put the period inside the quotation, it almost looks as if the period is part of the intended password~!

I don't know xD I always sucked at grammar haha

[joogrlpekaun]

Actually, doesn't the correct way depend on which English you're writing in, at least to some extent? I think both may be correct somewhere in the world, but between (1) and (2), (2) is correct in American English. You will never see it the other way in professional newspapers, magazines, published books that have been edited, etc. In school in the USA, I was taught that punctuation goes inside the quotations pretty much all the time, and teachers always corrected students who wrote their periods on the outside, but I think I remember hearing at least once that it's not incorrect in some parts of the world to write it outside the quotation marks. I'm trying to think of an example from my university schooling in Canada of one way or the other, but I usually read science textbooks or books in Spanish, and the textbooks are almost all American editions, anyway. I think it's (2) and not (1) in Canada, too.

(3) and (4) is a bit of a special case, I guess, but I still think it's technically supposed to be (4) according to the rules of grammar in American English. If you're going for absolute clarity in a more informal situation, such as an e-mail, then (3) makes it clearer that the password doesn't include the punctuation mark, but the correct way in standard American English is more likely still (4). I think it looks better and more correct, too, personally, but it does leave it up to the reader to realize that the punctuation isn't part of the password.

Then again, I'm not really an expert. My mother was the English major, not me.

[~ BunnyliciouS ~]

(2) and (4) are the proper english.

I once worked at a law office, I summarized depositions and medical records.
My employer complained when I typed like (1) and (3).

[Aziraphale]

^ No. joogrlpekaun is correct in saying that it depends on the type of English. In American English, you see the period inside the quotation marks regardless of whether the quoted text is part of a sentence. However, in British English, the punctuation mark is outside the quotation mark if it's part of a sentence, and inside if it's not.

So you will see something like this in The Guardian (newspaper from England):

We speak of the troubled making of Gone with the Wind and her marvellous Oscar-nominated performance (at the age of 22) as the saintly Melanie Hamilton – "one of the most extraordinary and fulfilling experiences of my life".

The text in quotation marks - "one of the most extraordinary and fulfilling experiences of my life" - is obviously part of the sentence, so the period goes outside. It makes sense because the period ends not the quote, but the whole sentence of which the quote is part. The quote is not an independent sentence.

So in Mannosuke's examples, (1) and (3) are more commonly seen in British English (and advocated by most grammar sites I searched), whereas (2) and (4) are American English. This equally applies to things like parentheses, semi-colons, etc.

A useful thread: http://wps.ablongman.com/long_faigley_peng...506571-,00.html

[eternal_bliss]

The text in quotation marks - "one of the most extraordinary and fulfilling experiences of my life" - is obviously part of the sentence, so the period goes outside. It makes sense because the period ends not the quote, but the whole sentence of which the quote is part. The quote is not an independent sentence.

So in Mannosuke's examples, (1) and (3) are more commonly seen in British English (and advocated by most grammar sites I searched), whereas (2) and (4) are American English. This equally applies to things like parentheses, semi-colons, etc.

A useful thread: http://wps.ablongman.com/long_faigley_peng...506571-,00.html

That's interesting. I've always wondered where the correct place to put a punctuation would be with parenthesis. Thanks for the link. And I always thought British English was more natural.

[Painterlyy]

If your talking about normal American English, 2 and 4 are correct

[Meenuh]

Wow. That's weird. I would have picked 2 and 3.

Why?
If the punctuation is part of the quotation I put it on the inside like #2.

If it isn't then I put it on the outside like #3.

Hm..

[brownman90561495]

i remember this being taught to us in school. we were taught American English so the correct way that I know is putting the period inside the quotation marks. as i grew older and now working, i have always felt that the way i was taught was halfway incorrect. so what i would now do in your second example is:

The password is "satiated".

This example is important to me because as an IT consultant, i'd give out passwords to different people. It's just common sense to follow the example above that the password is all the characters inside the quotation marks, and if you put the period inside the quotation marks, that technically means the period is part of the password.

But here's what I got from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark

The truth is (as for the researcher of that wiki article) one way is the American style and the other is the British style. As I have understood it, you can use any style and they are both acceptable. I myself use both styles depending on how would i be using the quotation marks.

Hope this helps.

[Mannosuke]

lol ya, sometimes when someone gives me a password and they write the period inside the quotation marks, I just write back telling them it doesn't work and they say the period isn't part of the string. Inefficient.

But as long as both styles are accepted (for the sake of clarity or not) then it doesn't really matter (in the real world where it actually matters).

Losing a mark in school for "improper" style is just not worth it though.

[jjong_yoon]

living in australia here...
i place the full stop (period i think thats what you call it) inside the quotation marks. but only for speech. if its to do with emphasis on something then it goes outside.
i actually dont even remember what i was taught. i learnt it in like 5th grade and never learnt it after that. thats just how i used it up until now and there havent been any complaints from teachers.

[joogrlpekaun]

^ True, but not in American English, which I gather is not your dialect, since you call it a full stop rather than a period. In American English, it isn't supposed to matter if the period/full stop is part of the original sentence or not; it still goes inside the quotation marks either way. Therefore, as Aziraphale pointed out, (1) is better in British English (and I would guess also Australian and South African and New Zealand English), but it's still supposed to go inside the quotation marks in American English. Here, (2) > (1), and it's understood that the original quote may or may not have actually ended in a period there, it just doesn't matter whether it did or not. The only major allowable exception I can think of in American English is when a question mark is part of a larger question and not part of a quote at the end, like in this sentence: "Did you hear how she said, "Everyone is poorer than I am"?

The "right" way depends on the dialect. Apparently, some people in this thread have a hard time believing that there could possibly be more than one correct way in the world, even if there's only one correct way where you live. It's like arguing whether the correct spelling is t-u-m-o-r or t-u-m-o-u-r, which depends on the country.

[Wadizzle]

2 and 4 are correct, and yes I learned this the hard way. I've always used 1 and 3 before too.

[discofuse]

Wow, interesting topic... I've always been confused with this one but I use both 1,2,3,4 (because one of my teacher back when I was in first year highschool corrected me when I put the " first before the period. )... depends on the sentence.. like on the 3rd and 4th sentence, I will prolly use the 3rd one and not the 4th.. But in most cases I'll stick with the british way, first is that it looks more correct FOR ME. Haha.

[xlemonpie]

in the examples u showed i'd use 1 and 3. it looks more correct to me
i guess i use a mix of british and english punctuation