[free-at-least]

I was having a conversation with a girl earlier this week, and she said that people actually change in some sort of way after having sex; that they see the world differently because of sex. I argued the complete opposite, to which she said that I, essentially, wouldn't know because I am a virgin and that I'd be "screaming it out to the world" if I wasn't. Quite simply, I'd probably feel horrible about the whole situation if I did have sex, especially if the person broke up with me at any point afterward. I see sex as giving your whole self to a person, so this girl was treating it way too lightly for my tastes.

I told this to one of my friends, who happens to be the most self-aware and honest person I know, to which he said that "women are stupid and shallow." He sees women as trying to "dress up" sex as something spiritual, when in fact they just want the physical pleasure. In his eyes, men are just as bad, however; he sees them as less afraid of sex, but they are still obsessed with the act. This makes women, in a sense, dishonest and afraid. He doesn't go as far as calling them inferior, but he makes the point that they are hiding behind something else: romantic experiences, for example.
He also said something else that I found interesting; he basically said that people don't understand how important it is to focus on social interaction rather than cultural interaction. As in, it's better to focus on talking to real people, as opposed to dealing fictional people (he'd mention something like Twilight if asked for specifics).

In all of this, he himself claims to be different, and to some degree he is. I see him as wise, which is a rare trait for someone under the age of 50. He claims that social interaction comes far before anything else; that social interaction leads to emotional enlightenment, and that sex is just a way most people use their bodies for pleasure, instead of their minds. He sees sex as lazy and an empty action.

To summarize all of this, because I wrote this in a hurry while the idea was fresh in my mind: he sees both sexes as less than honest about themselves. He sees women as trying to hide behind emotional superiority. He sees men as honest with themselves, but still too obsessed with physical pleasure.

Do I agree with him? I agree that women are no different from men when it comes to sex, aside from social constructs; however, I'd like your opinions.

What do you think?

[bonjour tristesse.]

I'm a virgin so I wouldn't really know but I've had a conversation before with a friend and I remember that she said sex changed her because she felt like she's lost a part of herself.

[hishari]

Does sex change you?
Unfortunately.

And not all women are stupid and shallow, thanks.

[free-at-least]

Does sex change you?
Unfortunately.

Elaborate

[witchery]

He sees women as trying to "dress up" sex as something spiritual, when in fact they just want the physical pleasure.

Not all women are this horny and sex-driven to have to disguise their urges as something more innocent. Your friend makes it sound like women kind of invent restrictions in their head, to be more compliant with social norms- that it's only because of these artificial limitations that pressure them to refuse sex, or to not appear so desperate for it. However it's more complex than that.
I don't really think it's entirely about women being dishonest with themselves. Even without those social expectations and norms, it's not like women will see any man and be like "yeah I'll do you." Even if they do anticipate the physical pleasure, he might not be a person they're very sexually attracted to. And I guess that's because not all of us are so naturally and outrageously horny that we have the innate desire to do anyone available- there's nothing to disguise or lie about.

As for how people change after sex in other ways, I think for some, once they've experienced it they want more. In future relationships there will be greater pressure to do the deed, and they'll feel more sexually frustrated if there's no sex- I guess it feels like going backwards or something, since you already know what it's like to reach that higher level of pleasure lol.
Others though, might think it's overrated, like some of my friends. I can see where you get this idea of it becoming empty and meaningless. I think for a virgin, it's just the novelty of doing something new. Like with smoking, drugs, etc. It seems naturally exciting at first, but after you do it for the first time, the novelty wears off.

[free-at-least]

Not all women are this horny and sex-driven to have to disguise their urges as something more innocent. Your friend makes it sound like women kind of invent restrictions in their head, to be more compliant with social norms- that it's only because of these artificial limitations that pressure them to refuse sex, or to not appear so desperate for it. However it's more complex than that.
I don't really think it's entirely about women being dishonest with themselves. Even without those social expectations and norms, it's not like women will see any man and be like "yeah I'll do you." Even if they do anticipate the physical pleasure, he might not be a person they're very sexually attracted to. And I guess that's because not all of us are so naturally and outrageously horny that we have the innate desire to do anyone available- there's nothing to disguise or lie about.

As for how people change after sex in other ways, I think for some, once they've experienced it they want more. In future relationships there will be greater pressure to do the deed, and they'll feel more sexually frustrated if there's no sex- I guess it feels like going backwards or something, since you already know what it's like to reach that higher level of pleasure lol.
Others though, might think it's overrated, like some of my friends. I can see where you get this idea of it becoming empty and meaningless. I think for a virgin, it's just the novelty of doing something new. Like with smoking, drugs, etc. It seems naturally exciting at first, but after you do it for the first time, the novelty wears off.

I think you're misconceiving the message. Your main argument is that, essentially and deeply truthfully, my friend is frustrated at his lack of sex and his appearance. See your underlined quotations for my source of this notion.

This couldn't be any more wrong. Honestly, I myself think this person is averagely attractive and would have no problem getting in to a relationship with someone. In fact he is definitely more charismatic than me and turned down sexual advances by the very girl I was talking to. You're assuming his social countenance is below average; we shouldn't really be assuming arbitrary matters in this discussion.

Assume the person saying this has no problem finding anyone, and has no problem with people being attracted to them. Say he just plain and simple hates it for what it is, not because of any deprivation from it.

Your argument about them changing by 'wetting their appetite' is reasonably sound but not a precise refutation of his point. The girl that told me that it made her 'see the world different' obviously has more to say about her change than that it just made her expect sex more. She's saying she is emotionally heightened, that it helped her mature, that it helped her grow up and become a better person.

Does this make it more clear?

I'm a virgin so I wouldn't really know but I've had a conversation before with a friend and I remember that she said sex changed her because she felt like she's lost a part of herself.

I actually hadn't considered that. I guess I should have been more precise about the difference between being emotionally alleviated and... well, that.

[Mannosuke]

He claims that social interaction comes far before anything else; that social interaction leads to emotional enlightenment, and that sex is just a way most people use their bodies for pleasure, instead of their minds. He sees sex as lazy and an empty action.

Some choose to use their bodies, some choose to use their minds.
Does it change people? I haven't noticed any significant changes in people before and after, for some definition of "significant"

[°..a²]

Yeah it changed me. I feel like I'm more open minded now.
I don't know whether I agree or disagree with your friend, because quite frankly, I don't know what the hell he's trying to say. Is he saying that women secretly want sex but are trying to hide it..? I don't know, please enlighten me if I'm wrong.

[peanut]

To answer your question, yes. I believe I've matured through sex. I'm not a horny sex craving wild beast though. To be honest, I haven't even thought about sex after I broke up with my ex-boyfriend. If I were to have sex again, I would want to have sex with someone I love, and I'm committed to.

[witchery]

So you're saying that, after having sex, he realises how petty and insignificant the whole act is?
From reading your first couple of paragraphs it seemed like the main point was that after having sex, your friend comes to the conclusion that women are "stupid and shallow" for imposing unnecessary restrictions upon themselves, when their true desire is to just dive in and do it..?

Say he just plain and simple hates it for what it is, not because of any deprivation from it.

Why would he hate it for what it is, if he thinks the whole purpose of it is to gain physical pleasure? Do you mean he hates other people's dishonesty associated with the act, or the act itself? If it's something he can turn down so easily then I don't see how it's a pleasure to him at all.

The girl that told me that it made her 'see the world different' obviously has more to say about her change than that it just made her expect sex more. She's saying she is emotionally heightened, that it helped her mature, that it helped her grow up and become a better person.

Frankly, I just don't understand how someone matures so much from having sex. She makes sex sound like discovering God or something lol

[jaeka]

Define change.

I'm not a virgin and nothing changed in me. I'm still with the guy now. It didn't make me feel better than anyone, didn't make me feel like I was part of the crowd... I'd had sex, shown my affection to my boyfriend in a sexual manner and that was it. Then again this is coming from someone who doesn't see a big fuss with virginity as it means different things to different people.

I also don't really understand your friends argument. If I must be frank, it's edging sexist. Saying that women 'dress up the act' is a generalisation. How can he speak for all women? I certainly never did. It's a human desire for that sexual pleasure anyways. Saying men acknolwedge the desire and women don't and try to cover it up is a big generalisation to be fair. He's less wise and moar sexist.

[mintcracker]

After sex, I realised it was highly overrated and not that big of a deal (this was coming from a perspective that you had to have a long committed relationship to do it)
But now it's like, meh, sex. Lol, I won't do it with anyone, and of course it has to be with sb I care about alot, but at the same time, that restrictive side has lowered if you get what I mean. Having sex doesn't really change you as a person, you just mature in some ways I guess.
I do not advocate ppl lower than 16 doing it.



coughnowIsureashellwon'twaitayearcough

I think it's a fact that girls are just as sexual as guys, cept they know how to keep it on the down low better.

[christelle-g]

Still virgin so can't really tell....but one of my friends has changed since she had sex...she's now such a stupid girl and has invented the 'no-feeling-relationship': having sex with someone where you don't even have any feelings for this person. U_U