[lilian21]

Fist, sorry for the long post....
I'm not sure if this topic has been covered before, but if you don't mind, I would just like to vent a little.

I've had a long tug-of-war issue with my parents and family ever since I gone off to college. They always push me towards getting the highest education, and most of all, they eat, sleep, dream doctor. That's all they ever talk about when they see me, doctor! My family has such high expectations and looks down on anyone who basically isn't a doctor (yea you see where I'm going with this). Most of my life, I've been indoctrinated to the point where I have no idea what's MY career goal versus my family's career goal anymore. I graduated from college, and has been studying for the MCAT. However, just last week, I decided to change careers. I want to go to dentistry school. To me, the two aren't all that different. I made the decision to change because of the lifestyle differences between a dentist vs. a doctor, not because one is easier or better than the other.

I originally told my mom about my decision (to change careers) and at first, she was supportive, and said as long as I know what I'm doing, it doesn't matter. Then in the past week, she's called me every single day (I moved out after graduating), PLUS my siblings have called me repeatedly, trying to convince me to change my mind. Their reasons are so obscure and narrow minded. They just see DOCTOR as the best there is. It mostly has to do with the Vietnamese community and what they would say. They've been telling everyone I'm going to be a doctor, and now they're afraid it'll hurt their pride if they change the story.

The problem is- IT'S MY LIFE! My family has never been there for me whenever I needed them. In fact, they've done the exact opposite. When I first got into college and needed my dad's help for financial aid things (my school costs over $50,000/year total), my dad yelled at me and said that he won't help because he's afraid others (other Viet people) will think that he doesn't have the money to put me through college. He said he'll sell the house for me if he needs to, but he's not going to try to get financial aid because that's shameful. Needless to say, I did it all on my own- basically, I made my own college education happen. Then after I graduated, my two siblings said they would attend. They asked me for a whole year straight when my graduation would be so they can mark the date. Guess what? BOTH of them backed out last minute, lying to me, making up excuses. One said she missed her flight. The other lied and said she had to watch her kids even though she ended up going to work that day and already had a babysitter. Finally, on the day when me and my then-boyfriend decided to get engaged and wanted to have a talk with my parents. We came home and waited for 2 hours for my dad to be ready so we can talk. RIGHT when the talk was about to start, he LEFT, went out, to home depot (this wasn't an emergency where he had to leave). He just left. Me and my fiance were stunned, we couldn't believe he actually ditched us, when something so important was going on in my life and I wanted him to share it. There are a lot of other incidence that has caused me to resent my family and feel like the black sheep.

Bottom line is, the only person who has helped me through everything is my fiance, my family has never helped me, but instead, caused a lot of my stress. They love talking about people behind their back, criticizing them and critiquing their actions. It's like a high school clique. I've always felt left out, since they all hubble together, whereas I'm kind of on the side lines. They expect all these things of me, but when those things happen, they are not there to share it with me. Since I switched to dentistry, they've been passive aggressive, "convincing" me, saying doctor this doctor that, and I'm tired of all their BS.

Are ALL Asian families this way? I just want to cut them out of my life so I don't have to deal with their BS anymore, but of course, they're my "family".

Sorry for the incoherent train of thoughts. A lot of things have been running through my mind, and if I were to describe them all, it would take more than this page lol. I just want to know if I'm being overly critical of my family-expecting too much- or are Asian immigrants mostly like this?

[taiji.]

just because they are your family, that doesn't mean you always have to deal with that kinda crap.. if they don't appreciate you, why should you appreciate them? seems like your family is as bad as mine. i've tried so hard to get along with my family always going out of my way to satisfy them. i gave up after realizing that it wasn't going anywhere. i no longer speak to my family and i actually feel really comfortable this way.

"My father and I don't speak. I don't hold any anger toward him. I don't believe that somebody's family becomes their blood. Because my son's adopted, and families are earned." - Angelina Jolie

[Laxntiga]

Welcome to my life 10 years ago.

A lot of Korean parents say: Doctor or Lawyer too

They say it because they think Doctors and Lawyers make oodles of money and live the easy life.
Since my parents immigrated here, they didn't want us to suffer or work as hard as they had to.
They always used to look up to their customers who were... doctors or lawyers or some business man.

A lot of Koreans opened up dry cleaners or nail salons, not much English is required.
But that was the first generation of immigrants, we're 1.5's or 2nd gens. So... technically, since we know the language, gone through the school system and even graduated college... parents are thinking we should all be successful. I'm the first out of 3 (two younger sisters), so everyone looks at me. My parents never praised or said good job, they always found something to criticize, judge, or compare me to someone else's successful daughter/son.

I got over the doctor/lawyer thing because my parents eventually made a lot of money, then realized there are even BETTER positions out there... like Investment Banker, Hedge fund Manager, or even high ranking government jobs >.>

I got them to stop telling me what to do when I said... it won't matter what you say to me. I live my own life, yes I have a general idea what I'm going to do and my morals/values that will help me get there, but no way in hell can I be a doctor or lawyer. I would rather die than have to work at a place I feel miserable in everyday.

This is a conversation I had with my dad that got them off my back:

Me: Dad, do you like being an optician?
Pops: Its ok, I can do it. Dad.
Me: Dad, if you could do anything in the world, what would you do?
Dad: Retire and farm somewhere quiet
Me: If someone told you, you had to be stuck in your office and make eye glasses for the rest of your life how would you feel?
Dad: *sigh... If there was no other way, then I guess I would just have to do it.
Me: But what if you had the CHOICE?
Him: FARM! Of course!
Me: This is exactly how I feel. I don't want to be a Doctor, because I don't want to be stuck inside all day and do the same thing.
Dad: Then what are you going to do???

yadda yadda yadda you get the idea

[foreverursVi]

First off, I'd like to say I'm sorry that you have a family like that. It seems like they don't really appreciate you and it seems like they're trying to mooch off of your success. However, I think that alot of families have people like that, but to varying degrees. My great-aunt wanted me to apply to Harvard Med. and when I told her I wasn't going to bc I personally don't like Harvard, she hasn't called/spoken to me since. haha.

I don't think that ALL asian families are like that. I'm sure that there are some families out there that are like yours, but then again there are also families that are the complete 180.

Right now my family supports me as long as I'm doing something "medically related". I'm sure that if I decided to tell my parents I was going to be a photographer or a musician, then my parents, more so my mother, would do the same thing yours did about the underlying comments of being a doctor.

It's unfortunate that support only goes so far. =/

[lilian21]

Thanks guys for replying. I never know if I'm being too harsh on them, or I have the right to feel this way. I just don't get it...what is so GREAT about being a doctor? I mean, do most of our parents even know what a doctor's life is about? What about residency, on-calls, working your behind off only to answer to insurance companies...

There's always the whole thing of "honor your family". Several years ago, when I decided to get a masters (again, trying out different careers to see what is right for me), my father stopped talking to me for 2 weeks. He wouldn't acknowledge me, wouldn't look at me, wouldn't even give me a second of his day. This was when I was on summer break from college, and it got to the point where I had to talk to my advisors so I can move back to my dorm early. Finally, I couldn't take it, and I went off for a weekend with my bf (now my fiance), just to get out of the house. They thought I had ran away, and when I went back, I had a long talk with my dad. I asked him why is it ME that has to "defend the family honor" (yes, very Asian lol). I asked him why is it that everyone else in the family has the choice to fail, but I'm the one who's given no choice- I must be a doctor, or else all hell breaks loose. Well, I never got my answer because he said that was a mean thing for me to say (???? wth?!), and that I shouldn't feel that way, it's disrespectful.

Sighh...sorry guys again for writing so much. I wish I could be like some of you where I can stop talking to my family, but deep inside, I can't do that.
Well, at least I know I'm not the only one out there who feels this way.

[Laxntiga]

Be bold.... stand up for what you believe and fight for what you think is right.


I tell my parents to stop trying to live through me, it's pathetic.
I say you have years left in your life, why don't YOU show me the way? Parents are supposed to be models right?

Defend family honor pffffft
Such old way of thinking. Yes, you would want your family to look good and be proud of our lineage/heritage...

But if this isn't survival, why would YOU want to suffer your entire life to make someone feel better about themselves?
Would they do the same for you?

I respect people who respect me. If my parents don't respect me, I give them the silent treatment all the time.
Usually they need me for something first.

[lilian21]

Be bold.... stand up for what you believe and fight for what you think is right.


I tell my parents to stop trying to live through me, it's pathetic.
I say you have years left in your life, why don't YOU show me the way? Parents are supposed to be models right?

Defend family honor pffffft
Such old way of thinking. Yes, you would want your family to look good and be proud of our lineage/heritage...

But if this isn't survival, why would YOU want to suffer your entire life to make someone feel better about themselves?
Would they do the same for you?

I respect people who respect me. If my parents don't respect me, I give them the silent treatment all the time.
Usually they need me for something first.

LOL you're now officially* my role model.

[foreverursVi]

Be bold.... stand up for what you believe and fight for what you think is right.


I tell my parents to stop trying to live through me, it's pathetic.
I say you have years left in your life, why don't YOU show me the way? Parents are supposed to be models right?

Defend family honor pffffft
Such old way of thinking. Yes, you would want your family to look good and be proud of our lineage/heritage...

But if this isn't survival, why would YOU want to suffer your entire life to make someone feel better about themselves?
Would they do the same for you?

I respect people who respect me. If my parents don't respect me, I give them the silent treatment all the time.
Usually they need me for something first.

Sorry, but I don't agree with this. Maybe its just the differences in how we were brought up bc I look at the other side for things. Yes, to a certain extent you should be able to live your own life the way you want to. However, you should live it in a way that gives credit to how your parents raised you bc your actions reflect back on them.

Isn't it a little harsh to give them the silent treatment until they ask you for something? I don't think I could do that even if I was upset with my parents.

[evolution_]

Well first off, no, not all Asian parents are like that. My parents couldn't care less what I become just as long as I get a good education along the way.

Are you living on your own/can support yourself? If so I think you should just do what you want regardless of their nagging. They can't physically force you to do anything, right? If you're living off of them, the best you can do is ignore it. :/

I don't agree with severing ties completely unless they do something really horrible to try and sabotage you. But in a situation like this, it might be best to just spend time apart. Let you do your thing and let them stew over their thoughts.

[*serene*]

Sorry, but I don't agree with this. Maybe its just the differences in how we were brought up bc I look at the other side for things. Yes, to a certain extent you should be able to live your own life the way you want to. However, you should live it in a way that gives credit to how your parents raised you bc your actions reflect back on them.

Isn't it a little harsh to give them the silent treatment until they ask you for something? I don't think I could do that even if I was upset with my parents.

I agree with foreverursVi. And also because I am a parent myself, so I understand where your parents are coming from.

To answer your question...no, not all asian families are like that. It is also unfortunate that you feel you need to cut them off. I am more than positive all the pushing and lecturing is out of love, and I can assure you that its also because they want more for you. Maybe part of it is because they want this showpeice son/daughter that is intelligent, beautiful/handsome, whose successful...and really, what parent doesn't want a successful son/daughter that gives them something to talk about. I wouldn't mind that, and like foreverursVi said...your actions reflect back on them, so your success will give your parents a sense of success...
But the point is that its out of love. Not speaking to your family not only deprives them of a daughter/sister. It also hurts you.

And just a thought...if you have the type of stubborn parents who you can't get through to (kinda sounds like you do), maybe you need to be the bigger person and accept them the way they are, let them say what they want to say, while you do what you need to do. Parents...they're only human, they make mistakes too. Hey and ah...no one can make you feel inferior (and the family black sheep) unless you allow them to.

EDIT: Personnally, I think its great to have a support system...But aren't all success a bigger and more meaningful success if you were able to accomplish them yourself??

[Tuffcore]

Be bold.... stand up for what you believe and fight for what you think is right.


I tell my parents to stop trying to live through me, it's pathetic.
I say you have years left in your life, why don't YOU show me the way? Parents are supposed to be models right?

Defend family honor pffffft
Such old way of thinking. Yes, you would want your family to look good and be proud of our lineage/heritage...

But if this isn't survival, why would YOU want to suffer your entire life to make someone feel better about themselves?
Would they do the same for you?

I respect people who respect me. If my parents don't respect me, I give them the silent treatment all the time.
Usually they need me for something first.

Totally agreed.

Anytime my parents begin a sentence with, "I want my son to..." the conversation has ended before they even finish. I don't want control. I don't want dictatorship. I don't want interference. Give me liberty or give me death. All kids ever want is their parents to adopt the model, "as long as you're happy, then i'm happy."

I really believe the definition of love is "unconditional giving". So, as soon as parents demand things and give conditions for their love, then i hate to say it, but love is over or at the very least, non-existent at that particular moment. They've entered into a "transaction" with you. Transactions are not love.

Parents need to realize that kids will follow their own personal dreams regardless of what the parents want the kids to follow. If the parents support their kid, then the kid will detail for them every struggle and triumph along the way. If the parents do not support the kid, then the kid will pursue their own goals in private. Parents falsely believe that if they don't support their kids then their kid would be discouraged from their own dreams. Parents think too much of themselves and think too much of love. They don't understand the basis of human psychology and dangerously use love as a tool of control.

I am a parent myself, so I understand where your parents are coming from.

I can assure you that its also because they want more for you.

What can possibly be more than being happy?

[BoAFreakVer.300]

Your argument has little to do with race and more of what expectations your parents have for you. Judging from the post I will assume you are the oldest and the eldest child always has the most responsibility. In the end, you have a bad relationship with your whole family; avoiding any conflict, and never standing up for yourself. You built up this resentment that it finally blew up leaving everyone to wonder why after all these years of studying and learning you want to waste more time and money doing something else.

Unless you were abandoned, assaulted, *insert bad thing*, etc., thinking only of yourself is immature and selfish. Is that what you want to teach your children? To do exactly what you are doing now to realize what a hypocrite you have become. Your parents have done a lot for you and most children don't appreciate it until they are dead. Parents push their children to excel at what they couldn't because they lack the opportunity. Each generation has different values on success and happiness and you have to deal with the problem before it gets to the point where the resentment and hatred can't be resolved.

[mofo]

i don't wanna be rude and disrespectful but ur family sounds like the asian family from HELL.

u are your own person. don't feel bad for creating your own path on this journey we call life.

since they never paid for ur education, they have no leverage in saying what you can and can't do. as long as ur happy doing what ur doing, they should be happy too.

if i were you i'd distance myself from such negative people. ur better off surrounding urself with positive people who will support ur decisions instead of people who will put u down whenever possible.

[lilian21]

Again, thanks for everyone's opinion and advice. Just to clarify some points:

-BOAFreak: I'm actually the youngest one of the whole family. I'm the "baby"
-I've NEVER given them the silent treatment- it was my dad who gave me the silent treatment.

I don't see my family a lot, because I went off to college, lived at a dorm, and only visited home about 1-2 times a month for dinner. After I graduated, I got engaged and moved out. So it's not that I'm cutting them out of my life, in fact, I WISHED that I had that type of personality, but I couldn't.

I understand that most parents will want the best for their children, as long as they are successful, than that's what matters, right? And that's exactly where my problem comes in. It's not like I'm a drop out, loser child who mooches off of my parents' hard-earned money. I went to a world-renowned University, graduated with high honors, and whatever crap I had to deal with at college, I got through it on my own. I don't drink, party, or have ever gotten myself involved with the wrong side of society. (I'm not trying to show off, I'm just trying to explain my situation a lil better.) The biggest problem I've always had is the whole "as long as you're sucessful, we're happy". So what's so UNSUCCESSFUL about wanting to get a Master's degree, or wanting to be a dentist? Does anyone here agree that someone who doesn't WANT to pursue medical school is automatically a scum of society? Yet, I feel like I'm being exiled by my family just for wanting to make a decision that is right for me. I had already told my family that no matter what, I want to go to graduate school, it's a matter of WHICH graduate school. To them, it's all about DOCTOR, if you're not a doctor, you might as well drop out of school. So yes, they ARE pushing me to excel, but to them, excellence is doctor. Anything besides being a doctor is not excelling. My siblings and parents are mad at me for NOT wanting to be a doctor. Because they've gone around boasting to everyone "my sis/daughter is going to medical school" and now they can't live up to that. So they're using ME as a way of measuring their own success. Is that fair?

BOAFreak, I'm not really sure how I'm being a hypocrite. If I had kids, I will tell them to do what I'm doing. I'll tell them to follow their own path, as long as it's not a path towards drugs or jail. Even if I end up being the same type of parent as my parents, that is the advice I will give my kids.

I'm not trying to say I'm the perfect child. But despite all the resentment I feel inside, I've always been the child who makes all the phone calls, takes my parents to all their doctors appointments, and the one they turn to 99% of the time- everything from fixing the TV (they literally called me while I was studying for an exam at my dorm to ask why the TV isn't working), to taking them to the doctors. I've driven for 4 hours to come back to my parents' house, while studying for the MCAT and take out a whole week to take my mom to the doctors even though all my siblings live 5 minutes away and has no exams to study for. I mean if that makes me such a horrible hypocritical person, so be it.

[JinEnjuce]

Again, thanks for everyone's opinion and advice. Just to clarify some points:

-BOAFreak: I'm actually the youngest one of the whole family. I'm the "baby"
-I've NEVER given them the silent treatment- it was my dad who gave me the silent treatment.

I don't see my family a lot, because I went off to college, lived at a dorm, and only visited home about 1-2 times a month for dinner. After I graduated, I got engaged and moved out. So it's not that I'm cutting them out of my life, in fact, I WISHED that I had that type of personality, but I couldn't.

I understand that most parents will want the best for their children, as long as they are successful, than that's what matters, right? And that's exactly where my problem comes in. It's not like I'm a drop out, loser child who mooches off of my parents' hard-earned money. I went to a world-renowned University, graduated with high honors, and whatever crap I had to deal with at college, I got through it on my own. I don't drink, party, or have ever gotten myself involved with the wrong side of society. (I'm not trying to show off, I'm just trying to explain my situation a lil better.) The biggest problem I've always had is the whole "as long as you're sucessful, we're happy". So what's so UNSUCCESSFUL about wanting to get a Master's degree, or wanting to be a dentist? Does anyone here agree that someone who doesn't WANT to pursue medical school is automatically a scum of society? Yet, I feel like I'm being exiled by my family just for wanting to make a decision that is right for me. I had already told my family that no matter what, I want to go to graduate school, it's a matter of WHICH graduate school. To them, it's all about DOCTOR, if you're not a doctor, you might as well drop out of school. So yes, they ARE pushing me to excel, but to them, excellence is doctor. Anything besides being a doctor is not excelling. My siblings and parents are mad at me for NOT wanting to be a doctor. Because they've gone around boasting to everyone "my sis/daughter is going to medical school" and now they can't live up to that. So they're using ME as a way of measuring their own success. Is that fair?

BOAFreak, I'm not really sure how I'm being a hypocrite. If I had kids, I will tell them to do what I'm doing. I'll tell them to follow their own path, as long as it's not a path towards drugs or jail. Even if I end up being the same type of parent as my parents, that is the advice I will give my kids.

I'm not trying to say I'm the perfect child. But despite all the resentment I feel inside, I've always been the child who makes all the phone calls, takes my parents to all their doctors appointments, and the one they turn to 99% of the time- everything from fixing the TV (they literally called me while I was studying for an exam at my dorm to ask why the TV isn't working), to taking them to the doctors. I've driven for 4 hours to come back to my parents' house, while studying for the MCAT and take out a whole week to take my mom to the doctors even though all my siblings live 5 minutes away and has no exams to study for. I mean if that makes me such a horrible hypocritical person, so be it.

I'd say go for Dentistry. Cuz I've had this killer ache in one of my molars for the better half of a week now.

But seriously, to some extent, my parents were the same. In many ways, I can relate. I HAD to get top grades in math classes as a kid. My mom would even tell me "You are Asian, you're supposed to be best at math!" Problem is, math is not my strength at all. Yeah, I'm studying engineering now, but my grades aren't as good as I'd like them to be, and I have to exhaust myself to merely keep up. Anyway, it's your life. Do what you have decided to, and not let anyone live their desires through you. I'm also sorry to hear your family is making you their workhorse despite the burden you already have in school. Anyway, my advice might sound selfish, but (BOAFreak, you should take notes here), in the long run, if you end up in a career you were forced into in the first place, you will regret it. More over, I would rather someone who wanted to be a doctor treat me.

[luv_panda]

Arhhh the good old parent spat with their kids and their education...

Not all asian parents are like that but a majority I would say. My parents are half and half...my dad is a bit laid back so he doesn't put that much input but I suppose my mum makes up for both of them! SHE WAS OBBSESSED!!

When I was in Year 6 she made me take scholorship test after scholorship test for high school. (I'm from Australia and high school starts in yr 7 and scholorship were given to the smartest kids no matter your finacial situation is) its more of a "Oh my, look here my daughter/son got a 50% or 100% scholorship to a "private school" look how smart they are yada yada...its ridiculous...around 90% of the high school scholorship exams are sat my asian kids...before it used to be for children were were smart but not from a well off family so they could get a better education...now its kids who have the money to go anyway..go to like cram school every weekend so they can get a scholorship and tell everyone about it...sheesshh..and yes my mum made me go down that road....

but i'm not a smarty one..so when I didn't get any scholorship offers omg..my mum was soooo dissapointed..but i think she kinda got over it in the end...she like yours oringinally wanted to me to be a doc but relised i wasn't smart enough for it..thanks mum she actually said that...i don't really care coz I never wanted to be a doc anyways...hours are horrendous! but all through high school she was obbssessed with my grades etc..even now when I'm in college she is still asking me to get A etc..Uhhhh getting a B is hard enough..let alone an A

Unfortuntely, although I didn't go down the smart track she got my sister into it...my sister got the 100% scholorship to one of the top private schools, with all the pushing my mum does..and she has been telling my sister..about choosing to be a lawyer/doctor...omg...its riduculous...currently my little sitter has NO IDEA...she also said she wanted to be a dentist..and mum wasn't too happy about that idea either...don't get why..coz on $$ wise dentist earn more than docs here.but its like all asian parent's doctors sound more elite...

because they migrated here they want the best education for their kids which is understandable..but its hard when they push them soo much to be things that the kids don't want..i see my sister going down that track because mum couldn't force me down it!!! in a way i'm tyring to tell my sister to choose her own path but my mum really cracks it when I do...*sigh*

But yeah I see where you are coming from..my opinion..is to stand your ground and show them you can just be as successful in what ever you do as well as be happy.

Sorry for the long post ><

[Aziraphale]

lilian21, you should go for what you want to do. Ultimately, you want to be happy and you won't be if you spend your whole life living how your parents want you to. They may have all the good intentions in the world, but that isn't coming across right now and you don't want to wait until you're 50 and regretting that you hadn't done this or that. It's difficult not having the support of those closest to you (other than your fiance) in whatever you do, but if you stay true to yourself, you will be all right. Your parents have dreams that they want to fulfil vicariously through you, but in time they will come to understand that it is your life. You make your own mistakes, you forge your own path.

All the best

[chewy130]

It seems your family care way to much about how other people think of them, they seem like snobby people to me...

People like that are usually the hardest to convince and change their minds.

[lilian21]

I know my dad's obsessed with doctor because he wanted to be a doctor but didn't get the grades for it. So it's kind of like he's living his dream through me...well I guess it's time to wake up haha.

In some ways, this thread makes me feel less guilty for my resentment towards my family member (not so much my parents though, because after all, they ARE my biological parents).
In other ways, it's kind of depressing to know how hard Asian parents push their children. It gets to the point where it's unbearable! My fiance's brother is right now putting their 5 years old (yes FIVE) kid through a top-notch private school, with occupational and physical therapists after school. And the parents were born here!

As far as being a dentist or doctor or whatever, I pretty much make my own decisions and I still with those decisions. It's the look my family gives me that drives me up the wall. The look of "you're not good enough if you're not a doctor" or the look of "you're too stupid to be a doctor" and the talking behind my back that gets to me.

THANKS GUYS FOR ALL THE SUPPORT! I'm still going to do my duties as a daughter. I'll still take care of my parents in their old age as much as I can. But as far as making decisions of what I'll be doing everyday for the rest of my life- it's my own decision. For those who are in similar situations, hopefully you'll make the right decision also. Don't screw your life over just to go against your parents- but don't screw yourself over just to do what they want you to do also.

When I was having mental break-downs at college and couldn't sleep for a week leading up to exams, my family weren't there to comfort or to help me. Instead my dad would always ask "How'd your exam go? Did you know all the answers?" Even if I got a 33 on an exam (haha and that happened before), I would still have to tell him "it went fine". Just an advice to others out there- YOU'RE the one going through the steps to get to your career goal, whether it be doctor or lawyer or teacher, your family can push all they want, but when it comes down to it, it's YOU that has to do the grunt work to get there.

[koreanballads]

Ha. I grew up in a similar situation and after a certain point I simply stopped giving a 싵. Haven't regretted it since.