[angelfightrJ]

eh i'm a noob at these things...-.-. i heard the word underground a lot but what does it actually mean???...im just curious (:

[idyllic]

not in the mainstream or no public recognition yet.

[RACETRAITOR]

Partly that but it is more a community than a point in your career. Most underground bands don't really have aspirations to become superstars. It has advantages over pop music because there are no walls keeping the musicians from talking to you. Just about all creative music is made by underground artists and then mainstream record labels find ways to copy the good stuff and make money, pretty often without rewarding the original creators at all.

[angelfightrJ]

oh i see (: *sigh* musicians should become musicians for their love of music, not their aspirations of becoming a superstar. there are other options for that goal :T...so hehes that makes me interested in underground bands. anyways thanks for the info ^^.

[yg4lyfe]

well i think mainstream is good too!
i mean not all mainstream become mainstream fo the sake of fame!
they just good and get pplz recognition!

[RACETRAITOR]

From what I've seen throughout 20th century history, the best musicians rarely go mainstream. Their imitators more often get all the fame and glory.

[yg4lyfe]

well kinda .... i see a lot of good musicians stil mainsteam...lyk Norah, Jones, Jamie Cullums, .....

[payachan]

Of course it must have a reason for dividing into 2 part like we've seen .
Both underground and mainstream are good for me.
Like Epik High, for now ther are considered mainstream rap band depsite their awesome music style.

Maybe things which are real music and not related to pop/ballad/RnB/hiphop can be said "underground" .

Okey but Im not Korean and I dont know thoroughly 'bout it .

[Take Five]

Like Epik High, for now ther are considered mainstream rap band depsite their awesome music style.

that's because their style changed drastically after their first album and they gained a lot of pop music fans.

[uiyoltan]

If you turn mainstream in Korea, you will probably lose your original sound in favor for the general audience. How many real rock/punk have you seen out in the Korean mainstream? Bands like the TRAX and Buzz are pop-rock. EVERYTHING is pop-genre in the Korean mainstream! Even rap! To this day, I have not seen a serious mainstream rapper, except for MAYBE Drunken Tiger. Groups like 1TYM are A JOKE to hip hop, only rapping to appeal the fangirls (and fanboys).

Its called "selling out" in my book. But I guess I don't blame them. I need money too.

[yg4lyfe]

well 1TYM ish not a JOKE! THEY write their own music and lyric as well!
not lyk them pop singers just automatically sing wat the composer made fo them! or those wack*ss underground callin themselves rapper and emcee and blah buh wat they do ish stealin other's music and put some nonsense lyric there!
NOT ALL MAINSTREAM are bad!
it also depends on pplz's flavors! i think they gud so i lyk them! u dont then fyne ... stop talkin lyk only underground ish da best man!

[LucasBunny]

Huh??
How are they selling out???
Oh I guess they are selling out because they are not ripping off western artists like everyone else right??

[uiyoltan]

well 1TYM ish not a JOKE! THEY write their own music and lyric as well!
not lyk them pop singers just automatically sing wat the composer made fo them! or those wack*ss underground callin themselves rapper and emcee and blah buh wat they do ish stealin other's music and put some nonsense lyric there!
NOT ALL MAINSTREAM are bad!
it also depends on pplz's flavors! i think they gud so i lyk them! u dont then fyne ... stop talkin lyk only underground ish da best man!

No I never said all mainstream is bad. The Korean mainstream kinda sucks though. Well actually Asian mainstream sucks in general too. Bring me a Korean emcee who has a flow like Nas or Jay-Z, and I will change my mind. Hell, bring me an Asian emcee that can compete with Jay-Z. I'm tired of all these fangirls talking about how hot these rappers are, while the other hip hop heads just stand far away, laughing at these so-called emcees' flows and lyricism. Come on, even Snacky Chan dissed Korean rappers, and I don't blame him.

1TYM is not a joke because they can write their own music and lyrics? I can write my own music and lyrics. So? If you take away their good looks, they will be NOWHERE. If they rap about political activism, they will be NOWHERE. I'll give it to them that they never write about guns, hoes, and money, but they write what will make the fangirls scream in delight. I respect an emcee who can make it without good looks and dull topics. And all these rappers sound alike. Its getting me pissed off.

Stop accusing me of thinking underground is the best. Get out of the underground section then! STOP TALKING ABOUT MAINSTREAM RAPPERS IN AN UNDERGROUND FORUM. We don't want to see it! The American Hip Hop music is different. There are well respected rappers that are mainstream in America. There are also well respected rappers in the underground in America. But in the Korea mainstream, there are only respected underground rappers for the most part, and they are few in number! Just see what would happen when you put 1TYM against Wu Tang or NWA. THEY WOULD GET SMOKED, AND ITS EMBARASSING. Come on, you don't even need street cred to become a rapper in Korea!

And why are you talking to me about the underground? Do you even know an artist in the underground?

Huh??
How are they selling out???
Oh I guess they are selling out because they are not ripping off western artists like everyone else right??

wtf? What does not ripping off artists do with selling out? Besides, they all sound like Vanilla Ice. And to tell you the truth, they are not very original. They are selling out by giving in to what the mainstream wants. They give up their roots for money. I respect artists like Jay-Z and Eminem, because they can remain loyal to their roots, lyrically and musically, while becoming rich. But now all mainstream Korean rappers SOUND THE SAME. All their produced tracks SOUND THE SAME TOO! They just do whats been working to become famous and rich. Its like rappers in America that rap just about partying, drugs, and violence since that's whats been working in America. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE UNDERGROUND IS ANY BETTER AS A WHOLE. There are underground individuals who could waste these mainstream rappers.

Like I said, produced tracks sound all the same. Nothing is really "cool." Give me a Korean rap song with a nicely produced track running in the background. I'm asking for beats like "Microphone Fiend" by Rakim, "C.R.E.A.M." by Wu Tang, and "Renagade" by Jay Z (not to say those tracks are produced by those artists themselves), not Britney Spears beats. I feel like Korean rappers are taking POP music and just rap over it! Come on. That's a major turn off for hip hop heads. I must admit, I liked Drunken Tiger's tracks like "Good Life" and "Is ask Hizay." Those were actually dope. "DKY" by DJ Son is my all-time favorite.

Most of the people that listen to mainstream Korean hip hop don't know a thing about what hip hop really is as a culture. Most of these listeners regularly listen to artists like Bi, Se7en, Shinhwa, etc., and 1TYM sound likes the rap version of these artists! And they call themselves hip hop!

Those are the problems I have with Korean music. Lack of diversity. Too many boybands and Hip Pop artists. At least theres no 50 Cent or Lil' Jon in Korea. Thank God for that.

I will tell you that Seo Taiji probably agrees with me. Just listen to F.M. Business.

[payachan]

No I never said all mainstream is bad. The Korean mainstream kinda sucks though. Well actually Asian mainstream sucks in general too. Bring me a Korean emcee who has a flow like Nas or Jay-Z, and I will change my mind. Hell, bring me an Asian emcee that can compete with Jay-Z. I'm tired of all these fangirls talking about how hot these rappers are, while the other hip hop heads just stand far away, laughing at these so-called emcees' flows and lyricism. Come on, even Snacky Chan dissed Korean rappers, and I don't blame him.

1TYM is not a joke because they can write their own music and lyrics? I can write my own music and lyrics. So? If you take away their good looks, they will be NOWHERE. If they rap about political activism, they will be NOWHERE. I'll give it to them that they never write about guns, hoes, and money, but they write what will make the fangirls scream in delight. I respect an emcee who can make it without good looks and dull topics. And all these rappers sound alike. Its getting me pissed off.

Stop accusing me of thinking underground is the best. Get out of the underground section then! STOP TALKING ABOUT MAINSTREAM RAPPERS IN AN UNDERGROUND FORUM. We don't want to see it! The American Hip Hop music is different. There are well respected rappers that are mainstream in America. There are also well respected rappers in the underground in America. But in the Korea mainstream, there are only respected underground rappers for the most part, and they are few in number! Just see what would happen when you put 1TYM against Wu Tang or NWA. THEY WOULD GET SMOKED, AND ITS EMBARASSING. Come on, you don't even need street cred to become a rapper in Korea!

And why are you talking to me about the underground? Do you even know an artist in the underground?
wtf? What does not ripping off artists do with selling out? Besides, they all sound like Vanilla Ice. And to tell you the truth, they are not very original. They are selling out by giving in to what the mainstream wants. They give up their roots for money. I respect artists like Jay-Z and Eminem, because they can remain loyal to their roots, lyrically and musically, while becoming rich. But now all mainstream Korean rappers SOUND THE SAME. All their produced tracks SOUND THE SAME TOO! They just do whats been working to become famous and rich. Its like rappers in America that rap just about partying, drugs, and violence since that's whats been working in America. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE UNDERGROUND IS ANY BETTER AS A WHOLE. There are underground individuals who could waste these mainstream rappers.

Like I said, produced tracks sound all the same. Nothing is really "cool." Give me a Korean rap song with a nicely produced track running in the background. I'm asking for beats like "Microphone Fiend" by Rakim, "C.R.E.A.M." by Wu Tang, and "Renagade" by Jay Z (not to say those tracks are produced by those artists themselves), not Britney Spears beats. I feel like Korean rappers are taking POP music and just rap over it! Come on. That's a major turn off for hip hop heads. I must admit, I liked Drunken Tiger's tracks like "Good Life" and "Is ask Hizay." Those were actually dope. "DKY" by DJ Son is my all-time favorite.

Most of the people that listen to mainstream Korean hip hop don't know a thing about what hip hop really is as a culture. Most of these listeners regularly listen to artists like Bi, Se7en, Shinhwa, etc., and 1TYM sound likes the rap version of these artists! And they call themselves hip hop!

Those are the problems I have with Korean music. Lack of diversity.

I will tell you that Seo Taiji probably agrees with me. Just listen to F.M. Business.

I think that you're a little bit extremist. I mean: your favor is not like others' .
Everyone has his own reason for chosing their music for listening, so you and me, too. Take life easy with 2 sides.

Mainstream is not something so-calles as you said. Both underground and mainstream's artists have to work hard. Okey am I wrong if I love making money???

Shinhwa never said that they are hiphop artist. They just added more diversity for their music.
That's K-POP and you must accept what showbiz have been doing.

[uiyoltan]

I think that you're a little bit extremist. I mean: your favor is not like others' .
Everyone has his own reason for chosing their music for listening, so you and me, too. Take life easy with 2 sides.

Mainstream is not something so-calles as you said. Both underground and mainstream's artists have to work hard. Okey am I wrong if I love making money???

Shinhwa never said that they are hiphop artist. They just added more diversity for their music.
That's K-POP and you must accept what showbiz have been doing.

When I said that people that listen to Shinhwa listen to 1TYM, I only meant 1TYM claiming that they were hip hop, not Shinhwa.

I guess I'm blaming the Korean listeners themselves. They only seem to enjoy is pop. If they were diverse in what they want to listen to, we would have a diverse mainstream. The music business will always be the music business. Its generally the same for every country unfortunately.

[babiiecake]

i just want to have my little say in this ..

ok i must say that some korean listeners are bias because of the artists good looks like 1tym and what not but all i'm hearing here is this comparison to korean hip hop and american hip hop.

first, this is k-underground and there's no need to compare any korean artist to jay-z, eminem ..

and if people want to like 1tym because their cute go ahead .. korean music and american music in general is totally different. if you want a korean rapper to be like all those other rappers here in america then that's nothing close to being diverse. it's just lumping them all together.

i don't know what your saying about 1tym just writing music about what the fan girls and fanboys want. if you listen to their tracks and actually know what their saying then obviously you know that you're wrong. the songs aren't meaningless.

and if your so good then why don't you show us what you got and let us decide whether or not you yourself can compete against jay-z, eminem, nas or even 1tym.

underground is underground for a reason. it means they haven't been discovered which means they either suck or it's taking them a damn long time to get discovered.

i think you should sit down and listen to every single korean hip hop song and tell me if they don't have diversity. why not go and tell all those damn american rappers you brag about to listen to the korean rappers and you tell me what they say cause i don't think all of them have the same opinion as you. and that little thing about seo taiji .. well first and formost one of the members of seo taiji owns yg entertainment which 1tym is signed under and YG only takes very talented artists .. they only take the best so I don't what your talking about.

[uiyoltan]

first, this is k-underground and there's no need to compare any korean artist to jay-z, eminem ..

Yeah I shouldn't have to, but these people keep on mentioning the Korean mainstream. What do you think we're talking about here?

and if people want to like 1tym because their cute go ahead .. korean music and american music in general is totally different. if you want a korean rapper to be like all those other rappers here in america then that's nothing close to being diverse. it's just lumping them all together.

What are you talking about? Pop and hip hop are genres that originated from America. How can the music be totally different? Its not like we're talking about traditional Korean music vs. Country music. THAT would be totally different. And I don't want Korean rappers to sound like American rappers. I want Korean rappers to be original. Right now, all Korean rappers sound alike to me.

i don't know what your saying about 1tym just writing music about what the fan girls and fanboys want. if you listen to their tracks and actually know what their saying then obviously you know that you're wrong. the songs aren't meaningless.

Ok fine then. Bring me a song where 1TYM raps about political activism. Just one song is enough. I'll actually respect them (a little more).

and if your so good then why don't you show us what you got and let us decide whether or not you yourself can compete against jay-z, eminem, nas or even 1tym.

omg... wow. I don't even feel like arguing against this. This is like saying, "Since you think Bush sucks, why don't you try to be President?" First, I never said I was "better." Second, I respect Jay-Z and Eminem, so why the hell would you include them on the list? And third, I know many people who can smoke 1TYM, lyrically and flow-wise.

underground is underground for a reason. it means they haven't been discovered which means they either suck or it's taking them a damn long time to get discovered.

Wow how much more ignorant can you get? This proves that you know NOTHING of the underground. There are MANY reasons why people are underground. One reason is that people like to keep their freedom as an artist. When you go mainstream, you are controlled as to what you write and produce by your label, otherwise you might not be popular. Another is that people like the underground community. And do you really think that all the best artists would cross over to the mainstream if they had a choice? No way. Understand this.

Some people are so dedicated to their music that they would never sacrifice their freedom to express for fame or cash. By crossing over, you lose your freedom to your record company. You no longer can say whatever you want to say, because you can only say what the mainstream wants. I have the utmost respect for those people. They are truly the best musicians. So much dedication, while they make so little cash. But those kinds of artists don't really care about the cash; they only care about their passion. You can only find these diamonds among the trash in the underground.

Don't even post here. You know absolutely nothing about the underground. Just wow. Someone should smack you up just for typing that.

READ THIS. SOMEONE JUST POSTED THIS IN THIS THREAD:

Partly that but it is more a community than a point in your career. Most underground bands don't really have aspirations to become superstars. It has advantages over pop music because there are no walls keeping the musicians from talking to you. Just about all creative music is made by underground artists and then mainstream record labels find ways to copy the good stuff and make money, pretty often without rewarding the original creators at all.

i think you should sit down and listen to every single korean hip hop song and tell me if they don't have diversity. why not go and tell all those damn american rappers you brag about to listen to the korean rappers and you tell me what they say cause i don't think all of them have the same opinion as you. and that little thing about seo taiji .. well first and formost one of the members of seo taiji owns yg entertainment which 1tym is signed under and YG only takes very talented artists .. they only take the best so I don't what your talking about.

Seo Taiji is a person. Not a group.
Consider this. If 1TYM is so good, why is it that they are unrecognized by mainstream American rappers? I'm sick of these cats thinking that the mainstream is the best. I'm also sick of the cats that think the underground is the best thing to happen.

Go listen to some American hip hop and underground Korean hip hop. I've listened to 1TYM and YG Family and whatever other Korean mainstream rappers. Stay in the Korean Music section if you don't like what I'm saying. Go listen to someone else, because all I will do is criticize.

[cindel25]

Here we go again, the same old song again.

If you turn mainstream in Korea, you will probably lose your original sound in favor for the general audience. How many real rock/punk have you seen out in the Korean mainstream? Bands like the TRAX and Buzz are pop-rock. EVERYTHING is pop-genre in the Korean mainstream! Even rap! To this day, I have not seen a serious mainstream rapper, except for MAYBE Drunken Tiger. Groups like 1TYM are A JOKE to hip hop, only rapping to appeal the fangirls (and fanboys).

Its called "selling out" in my book. But I guess I don't blame them. I need money too.

YOU are the one who brought up "Korean Mainstream". The OP wasn't asking about that; she was asking about Underground.

Have you ever listen to any of 1tym's songs or are you just making your claims base on the reaction of "fangirls"? They did not get by on their good looks, they work hard for their craft and if you knew their history esp Teddy, you would not be making statements like that. Teddy was a part of underground before signing up with YG and he's very well respected (Still is) in the Underground.

Snacky Chan "Hip Hop Culture"

*headdesk*

[uiyoltan]

Here we go again, the same old song again.
YOU are the one who brought up "Korean Mainstream". The OP wasn't asking about that; she was asking about Underground.

Have you ever listen to any of 1tym's songs or are you just making your claims base on the reaction of "fangirls"? They did not get by on their good looks, they work hard for their craft and if you knew their history esp Teddy, you would not be making statements like that. Teddy was a part of underground before signing up with YG and he's very well respected (Still is) in the Underground.

Snacky Chan "Hip Hop Culture"

*headdesk*

lol. I was commenting about how mainstream artists are undiverse. And then I'm mobbed by YG Family fans.

I do not care if he's from the birds or from the streets. 50 Cent was from the ghetto and lived a life of poverty and drugdealing, far worse than what any Korean rapper will EVER go through. He was shot nine times. Do you think I respect him just for that? No way, his music sucks! And I don't think Teddy was raised in the ghetto, living life as a drugdealer. I doubt that he was shot nine times as well. Well, if I'm wrong, correct me then and tell me the story of the ghetto-raised-drugdealing Teddy. But if you do respect 50 Cents music and actually listen to him, I guess I will have to make a different case. And I already said in my previous posts that I've heard their songs. I am making my claims on what I hear. Go figure.

Wack music is wack. Dope music is dope. Just because a person's from the streets and kept it real before turning mainstream, it doesn't mean his new stuff is dope. He's still respected in the underground? I would like proof on that. But if he is, that's good for him. It doesn't make his music any better. It only increases credibility.

Man, I just feel that YG Family is just the pop version of hip hop. I don't want the pop version. I want the raw version. They attempt to be all ghetto while at the same time, they trying to appeal to the mainstream. Come on, thats wannabe hip hop.

Please, just go back to your 1TYM thread.

[A180585]

uiyoltan your arguments couldn't be any bias than it is....writing a full length page about mainstream and underground and American and Korean moves you no where.

You don't seem to get what most of us are saying do you? Firstly, refrain from calling us �fangirls��I take serious offence. One, cause I�m not and two cause dude I could very well be older than you and I know for a fact that some of these �fangirls� you�re talking about are older than you. Calling us �fangirls� and using their comments about the music WE listen to insults us to a great extent.

And please, I know you prefer underground hip-hop�but don�t make judgments about mainstream when I�m sure you haven�t sought out ALL mainstream hip hop albums and sat down and had a listen �properly�. Even if you did listen, your bias reaction will change what you listen to in reality to something you dislike. It goes for everyone and NOT only you.

What I�m sick of hearing is the comparison between the two types of music. Who can rightfully say what music sucks and what is �dope�, please get some sense into yourself. It�s people like you that bring about arguments like this. Respect people and we�ll respect you. Do you seriously expect us to sit back and watch you insult and type of music we prefer? Hell no�we�re not stupid like you make us out to be.

Taking a comments from fans that like artists like 1TYM purely because of their looks and making it a generalisation is not the smartest thing to do. To be honest, I�m not going to say I don�t like 1Tym because they are attractive, that would be lying. But I would say I would like them even if they weren�t attractive and that�s the truth. I don�t know about others but I respect 1Tym because of their music and the way they carry themselves. I never once said 1Tym were underground because put simply, they�re not. But they�re not like other groups, they do sing about love, they sing about this and that but does that de-credit them? Come on, so you think that �hip hop� needs to be about hatred and pain? All those topics in the typical �hip hop� genre? Be realistic dude.

As for why we�re here? Do you know why? Its cause the underground fans invade OUR space too! We�re just showing you how it feels. We don�t like people going into our threads and making smart ass comments too. At least the arguments we have here are to some extent worthy. Guys I see in here come to the threads in the Korean music section and say a whole load of BS and think we�re just gonna sit here? Please, we like to defend ourselves just as much as you like to defend your underground music. Looking at the posts here, I can see that at least WE have respect for musicians, not once has anyone dissed an underground artist yet you see looking at YOUR posts�seems like you think yourself to be superior because you�re so �right' and we�re so �wrong�. Cause why? You like underground? Oh all hail the king of hip hop then ey?

Oh and on a last note, please�don�t make it sound like the underground artists are the true musician, the �heroes��the �starving artists� in the world or whatnot. I could almost guarantee you that given the chance; probably 90% of these artists would jump at the chance to make it big. Money is a tempting b!tch and well�people grab at it when offered. They�ll �sell out� given the chance. Don�t make them any more special than anyone else, give it time and all that underground pride runs out the door when the bank runs dry.

P.S. underground artists �wasting� mainstream? Well duh! Underground has high emphasis on the lyrical nature of a track and verbal attacks�.of course they�ll �waste� mainstream. Geezz�point out the obvious will ya? Who said mainstream can �waste� underground anyway! You keep saying that people are accusing you of saying underground is the best�well stop writing your replies to make it seem that way then oh and STOP your damn generalisations. �Most of the people that listen to mainstream Korean hip hop don't know a thing about what hip hop really is as a culture. Most of these listeners regularly listen to artists like Bi, Se7en, Shinhwa, etc.� --- do you know everyone? Wow�must have missed me and maybe a billion more others�considering I listen to underground AND mainstream AND the American artists you seem to �represent�.