[uiyoltan]

Since the other topic I made about Rakim was a little narrow, I decided to create this new one, which is much, much more general topic wise. This thread is more oriented towards hip hop music artists from the golden age and the old school, although it is not strictly restricted to those eras. Hopefully, we can actually get some real hip hop heads over here. So, I guess as a discussion starter, who is your favourite hip hop music artist? (no pop rappers like 50 Cent or Lil Jon or Ludacris or whatever thats kids listen to these days.)

Actually, there too many to list for me... lol. To name a few, Rakim and KRS One immediately jump into my mind. I also like DJ Shadow and RJD2, since I am a fan of instrumental hip hop.

[AtomicNorthernLights]

Well Im a big fan of the AOTP there pretty dope, I also like tragedy Khadafi, Das Efx,Gangstar, CoC, Heiroglphics crew, Chino Xl, Kool G Rap, Mobb deep pre g-unit, athletic mic league, de la soul is nice, dead prez those are the people i listen to, not really into to "bling bling" rap or some "club" rap but although i like my gangster rap

edit:

i cant believe i forgot about AZ n the excutioners!!! arg i also forgot bout the boot camp clik lmao man there so many dope heads keepin it raw when they spit!

[Hamster Boy]

ive been taking a liking to binary star, living legends,visionaries,gangstarr, immortal technique, and an occasional jedi mind tricks

[Neon Night-Rider]

Here's some of the stuff I listen to:
A Tribe Called Quest
Aceyalone
Blackalicious
Common
Cunninlynguists
DJ Honda
De La Soul
Gangstarr
J-Live
Last Emperor
Masta Ace
Pete Rock & CL Smooth
Souls Of Mischief
The Pharcyde
The Roots
Wu-Tang Clan

... not my entire list, typing that would take too long.

[Iridescence]

Cunninlynguists & The Roots <3

Also... KRS-ONE. Because he is just too damn awesome.

On occassions, I listen to Hieroglyphics, Sage Francis, Jedi Mind Tricks, Jurassic 5, & Immortal Technique.

[Dachink]

underground hip-hop helped me expand my musical taste
My first taste of the underground was A Tribe Called Quest and MF DOOM, then I got into artists like Jedi Mind Tricks, Binary Star, Immortal Techniques, K-OS, Cormega, Sage Francis, Brotha Lynch Hung, Cage, and a whole bunch of others

I still find MF DOOM to be my favorite hip-hop artist still.

[masterpiece]

^ MF Doom is so overrated. He always sounds the same and gets monotone. He's creative, I'll give you that but the man is overrated.



One Be Lo
Styles of Beyond
Akrobatik
Demigodz
Zion I
Aceyalone
Slug
Tonedeff

[cookiecutter]

de la soul
wu tang clan
ll cool j
the roots
jedi mind tricks
Jurassic 5
mos def
& etc...

[THEmerryJANE]

Man, I have too many favorite hiphop artists, but the Wutang Clan does particularly stand out. I love all 9 members, Cappadonna when he ocassionally makes a song with them, NaS when he was into the Wutang mafiaso movement started by Raekwon OB4CL, and Mathematics. RZA is a pure genius at producing, in fact, I put him as one of the best. From CREAM to Triumph to Protect your neck to all the solo ventures each member had, the songs were so memorable. Everyone has a favorite member too, because each Wutang Clan member had a different style. In particular, I enjoy Raekwon and Ghostface when they combine into RaGu and do their whole criminology thing. But then again, I like the lyrical stylings of GZA and Inspektah Deck. And who could forget the bass voice of U-God, who was thought to be a traitor for some time, HAHA. ODB (RIP) was so unique with his whole singing, crazy rap style. And Masta Killa, Method Man, and RZA deserve much respect too. Wutang did so much and had so much influence that they definately are on my favorites list.

And some honorable mentions, from each coast:
East: Naughty by Nature, Mobb Deep (Juvenile Hell and the Infamous, essentially), Redman, AZ, NaS, EPMD, the Firm, Def Squad, Cannibus, Eric B and Rakim, and Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz.
West: Rass Kass, Dub C, Ice Cube, Mack 10, Jayo Felony, Souls of Mischief, Xzibit, Tupac, Luniz, Kurupt and Daz, early Snoop, some DRE, and G-funk hero Warren G
South: Outkast and Geto Boys.

[uiyoltan]

Yeah, Cream is probably my favourite song by them. Wu Tang forever. lol.

Big Daddy Kane and Kool G Rap are another one of my favorites. Also, has anyone heard of Aesop Rock? Really abstract.

[Dah_jOkA]

man u guys named almost errybody but c'mon wah bout Big Pun?

Guy was one of the sickest lyricist to ever officially step into tha game.

if dere wes still emcees like Pun i wouldnt mind shi.t bah c'mon 50? kid can't rap for shi.t, gyea hip-hop is growin n expandin worldwide bah at what cost? True hiphop is almost dead man. WTF

Big Pun
Big L
KRS-ONE
Big Daddy Kane
Tribe Called Quest
Del Tha Funky HOmosapien
Tha WU
Mobb Deep
Raekwon
Jin The Emcee
Talib Kweli
Immortal Technique
Hi-Tek
Redman
Mos Def
De La Star

man please i can go on for days

[uiyoltan]

^ As of now, hip hop died and only lives in the underground. How did artists like Lil Jon and 50 Cent ever become labeled as "hip hop"? I don't understand that at all. Just because there's rap in it, doesn't mean its hip hop music. About 20 years ago, hip hop was in its prime, and today its about to die. Yeah sure, groups like Wu Tang Clan were mainstream and may talk about money, guns, hoes, etc., but they sound NOTHING like what's out today in the mainstream. So called rappers that are coming from the South are really killing the genre. The reason why I don't really like this... is because those kinds of artists are giving a bad name to hip hop music. Now when someone says "hip hop," an ordinary person will think of party music with rappers rapping about drive by shooting, drugs, and getting hoes.

And that was my rant. lol. I guess there are still some people still keeping it real in the mainstream however. Like Nas I guess. He's releasing an album called, "Hip hop is dead... The N". Gotta cop that one.

Oh yeah, does anyone find it ironic that ODB died right before is 36th birthday? (*cough*36 chambers *cough*)

[Dah_jOkA]

^gyea i agree my point exactly, All this "crunk" music is ruinin our genre and it all started with Nelly gettin signed...bastar*

When ever I tell people theres more to hip hop than just guns and fast cars and that dere are better rappers than 50 cent and Nelly n Lil Jon, everybody looks at me weird as if I'm crazy or something.

I hate how the new "mainstream hip hop generation" Is talking bout how "ooo today's hip hop is the s***" and blada blada, the more crap rappers comes out the more real hip hop is pushed back and the more ignorant people become.

I mean tha onli person left in mainstream that can almost portray tha true art of hip hop and keepin it alive is Eminem....and if all we got left is Em....den thats jes sad.

We need someone to hit it big in tha mainstream scene n show errybody wah true hip hop is about.

and forreal man GOD! no more theories, haha, tha whole 2pac theory consumed so much of mah life.

[badmammajamma]

just because you dont like mainstream hip hop doesnt mean that you can take away its classification as hip hop.

lil jon, sugarhill gang, das EFX, 50 cent, biggie, cassidy, big l, fabolous, lil wayne, big pun, fat joe, outkast, cee-lo, aesop rock, the roots, pitbull, atmosphere, celph titled, run dmc, tag team, ja rule, mf doom, ying yang twins, apathy.. its ALL hip hop

different sh*t, same toilet

and ALL hiphop is REAL hiphop

heres a letter regarding "real" hip hop which was refuted by davey d (a hip hop journalist) http://www.daveyd.com/marchletters.html

a quote from davey d:

For example, when I grew up in the Bronx... kids from Queens were told that what they were doing was not hip hop... Then later on kids from Queens and Brooklyn dissed Long Island... Eventually kids from New York dissed New Jersey and Philadelphia rappers etc.. Around '82, '83, '84... pioneering artis like Mele-Mel and Grandmaster Caz said they represented the 'old school' while new comers like Run DMC and KRS-One who represented the new school weren't 'real' hip hop... If you go back and listen to some of the old songs you'll hear the dissing going on...In fact KRS-One sums things up best in his song 'Still Number#1' when he addresses Mele-Mel....

do some pondering after you read the bolded text.

We need someone to hit it big in tha mainstream scene n show errybody wah true hip hop is about.

then SUPPORT someone. show the executives that have all the control that there is a market for this so-called "TRUE" hiphop

there is none of this "true" hiphop out on radio/tv because there is no market for it. everyone seems to wanna listen to whats in the clubs and the people with power want to keep making money so they just give what people wanna listen..

[Iridescence]

The thing is with the media and "mainstream hip hop" is that they tend to favor it because it's the type of songs that they can dance to. Most of the underground music and old school... they're not really dance-able. So there could be another reason why people like Lil` Jon, etc.

[uiyoltan]

just because you dont like mainstream hip hop doesnt mean that you can take away its classification as hip hop.

lil jon, sugarhill gang, das EFX, 50 cent, biggie, cassidy, big l, fabolous, lil wayne, big pun, fat joe, outkast, cee-lo, aesop rock, the roots, pitbull, atmosphere, celph titled, run dmc, tag team, ja rule, mf doom, ying yang twins, apathy.. its ALL hip hop

different sh*t, same toilet

and ALL hiphop is REAL hiphop

heres a letter regarding "real" hip hop which was refuted by davey d (a hip hop journalist) http://www.daveyd.com/marchletters.html

a quote from davey d:
do some pondering after you read the bolded text.
then SUPPORT someone. show the executives that have all the control that there is a market for this so-called "TRUE" hiphop

there is none of this "true" hiphop out on radio/tv because there is no market for it. everyone seems to wanna listen to whats in the clubs and the people with power want to keep making money so they just give what people wanna listen..

Yeah, I heard KRS One talking about this cycle, and how people kept on looking back into the past talking of how dope rappers used to be. But then again, he called mainstream rappers today cowards. But I still can't imagine twenty years from now people looking back at Lil Jon, talking about him having dope flow and lyricism. At least groups like Public Enemy and artists like Immortal Technique rap about "important" things. And those that didn't have good topics to rap about... at least they had flow and lyricism, accompanied with a sick beat. That's why they were remembered, and not necessarily because of their topics. Actually, alot of old school rappers rapped about the same thing as todays rappers like money and boasting. The difference was delivery, creativity, and the beats. Seriously I think the cycle has stopped here. Look at mainstream rappers today: they lack flow, subject matter, and lyricism. Even Nas proclaimed Hip Hop as dead. The quality of rap has simply gone down in my point of view. Everything just sounds the same now. Now everyone raps about hoes, drugs, and violence.

I mentioned that KRS One called mainstream rappers cowards today. They just don't rep the true spirit of hip hop. The reason why hip hop was even started in the first place was to get away from the mainstream, but all these rappers just run into the mainstream while forgetting about their underground roots (if they had any), and become totally media-friendly. This is irony. Rappers become the very thing they sought to escape. Worse than sellouts. I mean, if rappers ran to the mainstream while remaining loyal to their roots, it would be different. But this is difficult to do, and almost nobody wants to/can do it.

So of course there will be no "true" hip hop in the mainstream. The mainstream do not want to listen to true hip hop today. They would much rather have party music which also happens to be called hip hop. That's why there is an underground. The underground is for people that appreciate the purest form of hip hop with no interference with the media. However, the underground doesn't appeal to most people, and in short, its not marketable. But there are also artists in the underground that sound mainstream... nobody really cares about them. Not the mainstream nor the underground. lol.

We will see, and maybe I'll be wrong. Maybe people will look back to say, "Wow, 50 Cent was dope! He raps about hoes, money, drugs, and violence! Great flow and lyricism too!" Or maybe they'll forget rappers from that era altogether.

[badmammajamma]

Yeah, I heard KRS One talking about this cycle, and how people kept on looking back into the past talking of how dope rappers used to be. But then again, he called mainstream rappers today cowards. But I still can't imagine twenty years from now people looking back at Lil Jon, talking about him having dope flow and lyricism. At least groups like Public Enemy and artists like Immortal Technique rap about "important" things. And those that didn't have good topics to rap about... at least they had flow and lyricism, accompanied with a sick beat. That's why they were remembered, and not necessarily because of their topics. Actually, alot of old school rappers rapped about the same thing as todays rappers like money and boasting. The difference was delivery, creativity, and the beats. Seriously I think the cycle has stopped here. Look at mainstream rappers today: they lack flow, subject matter, and lyricism. Even Nas proclaimed Hip Hop as dead. The quality of rap has simply gone down in my point of view. Everything just sounds the same now. Now everyone raps about hoes, drugs, and violence.


We will see, and maybe I'll be wrong. Maybe people will look back to say, "Wow, 50 Cent was dope! He raps about hoes, money, drugs, and violence! Great flow and lyricism too!" Or maybe they'll forget rappers from that era altogether.

dawg, NOBODY is gonna talk about lil jon having a dope flow and lyrics. do people talk about sugarhill gang and mention their DOPE flow and LYRICS? do they mention TAG TEAM and their DOPE FLOW and LYRICS? lil jon isnt taken seriously for rapping.. the only thing lil jon is gonna be remembered for is makin people CRUNK.. just like the old school party rappers. im positive that everyone doesnt take lil jon as an emcee

as for 50 cent.. hes already hated now, so what makes you think hell be praised for in the future? the only possible thing i can imagine him getting praised for is building g-unit and selling mad records and being sucessful; basically for being such a hustler and putting his foot in the game with minimal help, which is what 99% of rappers tryna blow cannot do

I mentioned that KRS One called mainstream rappers cowards today. They just don't rep the true spirit of hip hop. The reason why hip hop was even started in the first place was to get away from the mainstream, but all these rappers just run into the mainstream while forgetting about their underground roots (if they had any), and become totally media-friendly. This is irony. Rappers become the very thing they sought to escape. Worse than sellouts. I mean, if rappers ran to the mainstream while remaining loyal to their roots, it would be different. But this is difficult to do, and almost nobody wants to/can do it.

So of course there will be no "true" hip hop in the mainstream. The mainstream do not want to listen to true hip hop today. They would much rather have party music which also happens to be called hip hop. That's why there is an underground. The underground is for people that appreciate the purest form of hip hop with no interference with the media. However, the underground doesn't appeal to most people, and in short, its not marketable. But there are also artists in the underground that sound mainstream... nobody really cares about them. Not the mainstream nor the underground. lol.

do you think its ALL their fault? do you really believe mainstream artists have 100% control over what they produce?

once you get on a major label, most of the time, you lose ALOT of artistic control.

The reason why hip hop was even started in the first place was to get away from the mainstream,

could u elaborate on this a little bit? its kinda vague

from my understanding, hip hop was started as a means to have fun in the midst of the restrictions of the hood

The underground is for people that appreciate the purest form of hip hop with no interference with the media.

is that what no limit records was about? is that what all the WACK ass soundclick artists on the net about? is that what the dudes on smack dvd talking about hustlin and shootin folks up are about? is that the "purest" form of hip hop?

you dont see "real" hip hop because its not marketable by major labels. simple as that. and all the "real" hip hop artists that get rejected or choose not to go mainstream stay in the underground, where there is a plethora of WACK TALENT

the underground is HUGE; i would estimate only about 15% of it is talented, if even.


so quit being a hater and open your mind. go to a club and feel the difference between listening to paul wall and sage francis when a chick is grindin on your crotch. go ride and see if you want to take the effort of deciphering what aesop rock is saying when youre bumping his album in your car.. sometimes folk just wanna nod their heads to the bass and feel good while theyre driving.. i know thats why people bump young jeezy and ish around my area, cuz they got pride in atlanta and they wanna show it off. hip hop was originally intended to make people FEEL GOOD.. thats why KRS (who was actually talking about something) wasnt considered "real" hiphop by the pioneers. hip hop has evolved and ALL forms of rap has its purpose. just take it as it is and STOP ANALYZING SO MUCH.. you dont like mainstream rap? thats straight. then go find an artist you like and stop bashing something you dont fully understand

[badmammajamma]

this is an article i found by kristine wright, a hip hop professor at the university of california-irvine regarding the whole mainstream vs. underground issue

http://www.daveyd.com/comkristinwrightpt1.html

Rise Up Hip Hop Nation Wise Up pt 1
by Kristine Wright

First, I'd like to big up and offer respect to all souljahs in the struggle - the struggle for freedom, justice and equality continues and must continue. These souljahs fight on many fronts, from full-time revolutionaries, to full-time parents, taking care of their families and raising up stronger individuals for the future. From those doing what they should do, to those doing what they can do to just get by, we all are in the same struggle. We must start working a little harder to disrupt the status quo(please see Rise Up, Part 1: http://www.blackelectorate.com/
articles.asp?ID=617), but to do this will take UNITY.

Hip hop once again faces a moment in its history that may prove defining. Over five years ago the world watched the first implosion...East Coast vs. West Coast rivalries leading to the premature deaths of two hip hop truthsayers, Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls. It was a wake up call, and a lot of us woke up, at least for a minute. But truth be told, we still get caught up in wrong battles fighting wrong enemies. The latest frontiers: Mainstream vs. Underground, or New School vs. Old School. Again, we've taken our eyez off the prize.

For the past year, I've been carefully watching where hip hop was going and if it could reach its inner potential, and as we say in hip hop, move the crowd. I've seen some good things happen. Community activism in inner cities across the country is taking on a hip hop sensibility and offering real alternatives for youth at community levels. This activism has recently experienced national level successes, particularly thanks to Russell Simmons' Hip Hop Action Network. It has been responsible for organizing hip hop summits bringing artists, activists, spiritual leaders, and politicians to the same table for change. Most recently, the Hip Hop Action Network joined forces with New York educators and students to protest budget cuts in education, and due in part to these efforts, achieved retribution. Chuck D, KRS-1 and others have never stopped speaking truth to power and living their activism. Minister Farrakhan has also reached out to the hip hop community and offered his guidance to help us reach our revolutionary potential. Good things are happening.

At the same time, however, I've also noticed a growing tension and division within the community, a community so close to organizing and reaching its powerful potential, but knocked off track time and time again. Is it a coincidence? I don't think so.

The growing battles within hip hop around mainstream vs. underground, new school vs. old school, or "real" hip hop vs. commercial, are dangerous to real progress. A community divided is a community conquered indeed. Two most recent distractions center on the KRS-1 vs. Nelly beef and Nas vs. Hot 97. Both need careful consideration and real critical analyses.

On her new CD, Lauryn Hill asserts, "Fantasy is what people want, but reality is what they need." Well, here's the reality when it comes to these feuds and others like it:

1. Although battling is a pillar of hip hop culture, the KRS-1/Nelly beef highlights a real generational divide. New school artists are always accused of selling out for the money, disrespecting the roots of hip hop and its founders, and perpetuating negative, stereotypical images in lyrics and videos. In retaliation, new school and mainstream artists call out old school and underground artists for being haters, jealous and has beens, out of touch with the community.

Growing up in the KRS-1, Public Enemy era of hip hop, I owe my understanding of the struggle to them. My students consider me old school, and that's fine by me. But in this beef, I see both sides. Yes, the new generation needs to show more respect for those that paved the way. But old school folks must also show respect to young brothas and sistas still trying to maintain in the only way they know how in this world where few opportunities exist for the have nots. In many ways, the majority of youth we want to represent in the struggle relate much more to Nelly (if you live in Midwest), or Snoop (if you live in LA), or Ludacris (if you live in the South), than they do our more "conscious" hip hop keepers like KRS-1 or dead prez. That's real.

We need to stop living in "what should be" and start dealing with "what is". So for KRS-1 to call for a boycott of Nelly, it solidifies the division. Only those that are of like mind were even listening, inevitably preaching to the choir, never reaching the congregation; never uniting or progressing. And what about all our young brothas and sistas in hoods around this country that like Nelly? Are we dissing them too? We need to think more carefully about possible repercussions.

2. If us old school folks tell the truth, bling-bling in hip-hop is hardly new. Old school hip hop had its share of references to the material. Who can forget the gold rope chains? Black folks have always liked nice things because we've rarely had them. This dates back well before hip hop. The zoot suits and fancy cars of the Harlem Renaissance come to mind.

Mainstream "bling-bling" artists are really no different then the countless brothas in hoods all across the country that drive nice cars but live at home with mama. Let's stop blaming the new generation and mainstream artists for values we instilled long ago. In the same way, I remember as a high school girl singing along with my girlfriends to our favorite rapper/pimp, Big Daddy Kane: "Anything goes when it comes to hoes because pimpin' ain't easy". I know better now; then I didn't. We have to accept people where they are and for who they are, instead of telling them who they "should" or "should not" be. People do and can change, but criticism rarely motivates. Support and guidance may prove better motivators.

3. Although I applaud Nas for his courage to speak truth to power and highlight the corruption inherent in radio and corporate co-option of the culture he loves so passionately, I'm afraid his energies are misplaced and will not reap the results he would like. By calling out individuals from Flex to N.O.R.E. to Nelly, the focus of his warranted criticisms become personal and attention gets shifted from where it needs to be: on the oppressive system in which they are ALL pawns. The result: more division, no solution. And is Nas blameless, or am I the only one who remembers "Oochie Wally"? We can't be selective when we're keepin' it real.

4. I recently attended what I thought would be a "real" hip hop show featuring talented and often conscious artists including Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Blackalicious, The Roots, and Outkast. Unfortunately I left disappointed (and very early). I felt like I was more at an under-aged rave than a hip hop show that highlights "real" hip hop culture. I left wondering, what is so "positive" about this? Moreover, what is so "hip hop" about this? Because many of the underground "diss" mainstream so tuff and claim a "moral" high ground, it was strange to see this scene that didn't seem all that "positive" to me, where most in its young crowd were much more interested in getting stoned and ecstacied out than they were in the music or message. I think there's been more romanticism in revolution than real dedication to it in the underground and we need to talk more on this.

Although I've noticed more hip hop activism, I'm fearful that the growing division in hip hop will undermine our progress. It's like the activists are underground but those that need it are the mainstream masses. No progress can come from this equation; so systemically, little has changed. We are (our youth especially) still victims of oppressive educational and judicial systems that lock us up and out of self-determination, the only real solution. And this solution must come from a united people. We are all different, coming from different places, but hopefully we can become out of many, one people (borrowing from the Jamaican national motto). Without the masses, there can be no movement (please see insightful piece by Adamma Ince, No Masses, No Movement: Black Boomers Shout Reparations in the Court - But Go Silent in the 'Hood', http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0221/ince.php).

The Civil Rights Movement had the church as its catalyst. We have hip hop, and hip hop media outlets (radio, BET, magazines, web sites) must play a role in any movement to reach the masses. Even Nas must admit that, dissing one station while on another corporate owned radio station. If he didn't have access to this medium, only cats on his block would have heard him. Iyanla Vanzant once said, "Be against nothing, just be clear what you are for." If you are clear what you stand for, you need not be anti- anything or anyone, and the power of clarity circumvents any power gained from division. Although I understand that battles and beefs have been a part of hip hop culture since its beginnings, I hope they won't become another pawn for the oppressors' use to keep a revolutionary community and culture from realizing its potential for a greater good. Let's now work together and unite for progress and become truly, out of many, ONE PEOPLE.... ONE LOVE.

Unity must have to start now, because I mean how long will we have to suffer to just learn these things...that we must be united - Bob Marley, Chant Down Babylon

Kristine Wright teaches a course in Hip-Hop at the University of Califorina - Irvine and can be contacted via e-mail at Wrightk@uci.edu

""Be against nothing, just be clear what you are for." If you are clear what you stand for, you need not be anti- anything or anyone, and the power of clarity circumvents any power gained from division."

real talk

i respect where you comin from uiyoltan, becuz i had the SAME mindset a few years ago, until i realized that i was overanalyzing the culture and it was harming my ability to enjoy all forms of rap and respect all types of hip hoppers.. you gotta keep an open mind.

one.

[Cee Peeh]

What the hell is fake hip-hop?!

LOL wow...

It's a backpack fest up in here....

How much you wanna bet your favorite underground rapper has a ludacris CD...

[uiyoltan]

dawg, NOBODY is gonna talk about lil jon having a dope flow and lyrics. do people talk about sugarhill gang and mention their DOPE flow and LYRICS? do they mention TAG TEAM and their DOPE FLOW and LYRICS? lil jon isnt taken seriously for rapping.. the only thing lil jon is gonna be remembered for is makin people CRUNK.. just like the old school party rappers. im positive that everyone doesnt take lil jon as an emcee

as for 50 cent.. hes already hated now, so what makes you think hell be praised for in the future? the only possible thing i can imagine him getting praised for is building g-unit and selling mad records and being sucessful; basically for being such a hustler and putting his foot in the game with minimal help, which is what 99% of rappers tryna blow cannot do
do you think its ALL their fault? do you really believe mainstream artists have 100% control over what they produce?

once you get on a major label, most of the time, you lose ALOT of artistic control.
could u elaborate on this a little bit? its kinda vague

from my understanding, hip hop was started as a means to have fun in the midst of the restrictions of the hood
is that what no limit records was about? is that what all the WACK ass soundclick artists on the net about? is that what the dudes on smack dvd talking about hustlin and shootin folks up are about? is that the "purest" form of hip hop?

you dont see "real" hip hop because its not marketable by major labels. simple as that. and all the "real" hip hop artists that get rejected or choose not to go mainstream stay in the underground, where there is a plethora of WACK TALENT

the underground is HUGE; i would estimate only about 15% of it is talented, if even.
so quit being a hater and open your mind. go to a club and feel the difference between listening to paul wall and sage francis when a chick is grindin on your crotch. go ride and see if you want to take the effort of deciphering what aesop rock is saying when youre bumping his album in your car.. sometimes folk just wanna nod their heads to the bass and feel good while theyre driving.. i know thats why people bump young jeezy and ish around my area, cuz they got pride in atlanta and they wanna show it off. hip hop was originally intended to make people FEEL GOOD.. thats why KRS (who was actually talking about something) wasnt considered "real" hiphop by the pioneers. hip hop has evolved and ALL forms of rap has its purpose. just take it as it is and STOP ANALYZING SO MUCH.. you dont like mainstream rap? thats straight. then go find an artist you like and stop bashing something you dont fully understand

To elaborate, hip hop was started back in the 70s by those living in poverty (mostly blacks to say) that were rejected from the mainstream. They were rejected from universities, dance schools, etc. They couldn't be a part of politics or anything of the sort since they were a minority. Simply put, they weren't a part of the mainstream culture. So what they did was create THEIR OWN culture. This culture is known as hip hop. They created their own music, techniques, streetwear, dance, and etc. So in this sense, hip hop is Malcolm X's creation. He believed that blacks couldn't be a part of white society. In other words, the mainstream system wasn't working. So, instead of fixing it, just build another one. Hip hop is also a means of the minority's way to move the crowd. Not only by PARTYING, but also by social ACTIVISM and CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENTS, playing in active role in politics. I could write so much on this, but frankly I don't feel like it. lol.

Maybe I wasn't quite explicit enough, but I said that alot of the underground is WACK. No denying it. Some people are underground just because they are wack, and they deserve to be underground. I also said that old school hip hop artists rapped about the same things as hip hop artists rap about today. No denying that either.

I am not bashing the mainstream just because I don't like their sound. I just don't like what they are doing to the culture as a whole. As you probably know, hip hop is considered a culture by the United Nations. But hip hop culture is taken as a JOKE as of now. It is being mis-represented by just the media as only crunk and partying. While I agree that having a good time makes up a large part of hip hop culture, it does not represent the ENTIRE culture. Yeah, pretty much the majority of the underground is wack. But then there is the minority of the underground that outnumber artists in the mainstream that rap about political issues, religion, philosophy, and so forth. Yeah sure, I go to the mainstream for partying music. I mean, who doesn't like to feel good? But hip hop is not all about partying in my opinion. There are much, much more elements to hip hop music. But people take hip hop as nothing but partying. And then when the mainstream doesn't feel like partying, it goes to rock, soul, etc. where they sing about "serious" issues, since hip hop is a joke. This just disturbs me. I think hip hop has evolved past that stage. I think hip hop should be an active part of politics and other issues as well. But right now thats impossible. And if you think that hip hop's sole purpose of existence is to feel good and party, then I don't think we will agree with eachother any time soon.

I don't hate the mainstream. I just don't like how the mainstream is almost nothing but partying. I don't love the underground either, since alot of the underground sound like crap. Actually, I dislike most of the underground, since it is the same as the mainstream. Now that I think about it, I should have started a thread bashing the underground, since the underground is more to blame than the mainstream.

All I want is hip hop to be fairly portrayed as a culture in the mainstream. THAT'S IT. And yeah, I misworded the phrase "real" hip hop. Real hip hop is hip hop culture. I should instead have said "hip hop-that-deals-with-something-other-than-partying." And let me say this again: hip hop is a culture, not music. Activism must also play a role. Nothing is going to change if we have nothing but partying in the underground and in the mainstream alike.

What the hell is fake hip-hop?!

LOL wow...

It's a backpack fest up in here....

How much you wanna bet your favorite underground rapper has a ludacris CD...

Fake hip hop is like Hyori and BoA. lol. But you probably already know that, so I don't know why you are asking.
And how much you wanna bet that my favorite mainstream rapper doesn't have a Hyori CD?