No worries ANL, we understand. Nobody thinks any less of you for being a hypocrite in one statement about something that doesn't really matter on an online forum. I'd hope nobody was that uptight.
MARTIAL ARTS THREAD Any MA-ers Here?
#101
Posted 05 March 2008 - 03:25 PM
No worries ANL, we understand. Nobody thinks any less of you for being a hypocrite in one statement about something that doesn't really matter on an online forum. I'd hope nobody was that uptight.
#102
Posted 05 March 2008 - 11:26 PM
Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup,
You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle,
You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Now water can *flow* or it can *crash*!
Be water, my friend."
-- Bruce Lee
#103
Posted 07 March 2008 - 06:17 AM
haha & thats it XD
#105
Posted 13 March 2008 - 04:43 PM
Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup,
You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle,
You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Now water can *flow* or it can *crash*!
Be water, my friend."
-- Bruce Lee
#106
Posted 21 March 2008 - 01:20 AM
and still going strong in kendo and coaching. whoo. MA rules my life. -__-''
#107
Posted 26 March 2008 - 06:09 PM
#108
Posted 26 March 2008 - 08:14 PM
Yeah, it's a really popular technique. Judo has cool throws, BJJ has pull guard and bait your opponent in. But hey, you just let him submit you like that from guard? Keep your arms away from the mat at all times when in that position. There are lots of guard passes - elbow wedged in to the inside of his leg, stand and press your hips forward, stacking, maneuver towards the side, etc. It's a 50/50 position, you should be able to control him as much as he's controlling you. Keep your arms at his biceps to prevent him from grabbing at you, use your head to hold down his chest to prevent him from wrapping you up, keep your elbows in tight so he can't grab at your arms.
But to answer your question, I don't use the "jump guard" as much as I use the "gently sit down into guard while tugging at the other guy's gi". I most often use throws, trips and single-leg takedowns as my main methods of getting the fight down.
#109
Posted 27 March 2008 - 04:36 AM
I barley use it now because I find it very predictable just like tomoe nage. When you fall with him into his guard and he's about to close the guard, ram your elbow into his thigh and hold it and past the guard. For kimura defense on guard, when he's about to do it grab your belt and hold on when you do that you have just prevented the kimura. My favorite thing to do to get out of guard is to straight my back and drive me elbows right into my opponents thighs, doing this will make break guard %90 of the time.
#110
Posted 27 March 2008 - 06:29 AM
Good advice. Hopefully Atomic's rolling partner doesn't have a vicious open/butterfly/spider guard too. Nothing's worse than spending a ton of effort to break someone's full guard only to find out their other guards are just as good or even better.
#111
Posted 27 March 2008 - 10:57 AM
And for nogi just monkeygrip.
He got you in a body triangle from guard?
He must be pretty lanky/flexible... Dunno many ppl who can do that.
Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup,
You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle,
You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Now water can *flow* or it can *crash*!
Be water, my friend."
-- Bruce Lee
#112
Posted 27 March 2008 - 11:34 AM
But to answer your question, I don't use the "jump guard" as much as I use the "gently sit down into guard while tugging at the other guy's gi". I most often use throws, trips and single-leg takedowns as my main methods of getting the fight down.
Yeah i wasnt thinking i saw it done before in naga and open comps in my area but it was the first time i encountered it personally plus his transition to the kimura was just to slick for me.
Thanks for the tip for the kimura defense.
Havent rolled with him alot so i dont know btw what is spider guard?
He got you in a body triangle from guard?
He must be pretty lanky/flexible... Dunno many ppl who can do that.
yeah, i enterered pushed him then pulled him towards me trying to set up for kouchi gari thats when he jumps on me.
maybe i said the wrong thing about body triangle? what i call body triangle is when you have your legs wrapped around some like you would when you have some one in a triangle choke.
#113
Posted 27 March 2008 - 04:07 PM
Spider guard is when you use your feet against the guy's hips or arms to keep him from advancing which you use in conjunction with your hands grabbing at his gi or his head so you're using all four limbs just about equally.
maybe i said the wrong thing about body triangle? what i call body triangle is when you have your legs wrapped around some like you would when you have some one in a triangle choke.
Body triangles are usually called triangles because they're submissions too - they're sunk in really, really tight. The only way a submission can be created from a body triangle is if it's applied from someone's back, from their side, or from up top. It usually originates from the back, while the other two are usually a result of the captured party rolling around trying to escape. From guard there should be almost no way you can recreate the leverage and amount of pressure to really make the move happen right. Plus, it should be easy to break from that position, just like a regular closed guard, since gravity is constantly working in the captured party's favor. While the leg positioning is the same as a body triangle, I'd call what you were in a "closed figure-four guard" or something like that. But then again, I first studied BJJ about 4 years ago, so I'm getting to be somewhat of an old-timer.
#114
Posted 27 March 2008 - 07:23 PM
I find it funny that Joe Rogan blows his load everytime
Anderson Silva uses a body triangle in guard.
In a pure grappling match, I think thats probably the most useless thing ever
considering the position allows for absolutely no hip movement
which is vital for submissions from guard.
Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup,
You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle,
You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Now water can *flow* or it can *crash*!
Be water, my friend."
-- Bruce Lee
#115
Posted 28 March 2008 - 04:38 AM
By vicious guard do you mean being able to control your opponent or just being able to hold them at the guard for a long time?
#116
Posted 28 March 2008 - 02:22 PM
Both. To me, being able to hold someone in guard means you're controlling him. You can't really keep someone in an open guard without control for any measurable length of time unless your opponent is just a noob or horribly out of shape. You're always controlling something even if he's standing and you're on your back - you're controlling his ability to advance on you with your arms and legs, controlling his ability to pass you by using your hips to stay in front of him, you're attacking at his legs, grabbing at his gi, etc.
I find the people with the best open guards are just like that - they're really, really busy. They're constantly switching guards, constantly looking for sweeps & submissions, constantly grabbing at you, etc. Makes me want to just walk away and be like "fine then ya damn upside down turtle, have fun by yourself"...........And then quickly go for a cartwheel pass when they're not looking. It never works
#117
Posted 28 March 2008 - 02:48 PM
I find the people with the best open guards are just like that - they're really, really busy. They're constantly switching guards, constantly looking for sweeps & submissions, constantly grabbing at you, etc. Makes me want to just walk away and be like "fine then ya damn upside down turtle, have fun by yourself"...........And then quickly go for a cartwheel pass when they're not looking. It never works
I see.
#118
Posted 30 March 2008 - 06:09 PM
http://www.judovision.com/index.php?mode=v...amp;post_id=504
pretty good judoka
#119
Posted 01 April 2008 - 04:33 AM
I find the people with the best open guards are just like that - they're really, really busy. They're constantly switching guards, constantly looking for sweeps & submissions, constantly grabbing at you, etc. Makes me want to just walk away and be like "fine then ya damn upside down turtle, have fun by yourself"...........And then quickly go for a cartwheel pass when they're not looking. It never works
Just out of curiosity, how would you control someone well in open guard? or how did the people control them?
#120
Posted 01 April 2008 - 10:58 AM
In an open guard, there are lots of variations besides just laying on your back with your feet on the ground. Here are some examples.
1) The ever popular butterfly guard. This guard is achieved by hooking your feet in the inside of your opponent's thighs. This lets you control his legs and his base with your feet, while you control his head and arms with your own head and arms. Because your feet are hooked in, and because your feet are now directly affecting his base, you can use your feet to throw him off balance while you sweep with the assistance of your arms. Also, your feet are basically available for all sorts of transitions - you can transition from butterfly guard to rubber or spider guard, you can avoid all sorts of strikes since you have control of his base and his arms, and you can attack with armbars and triangles and omoplatas and all that other good stuff once you figure out how to control your opponent to your advantage.
2) The spider guard. If you want some space, you can use the spider guard (feet on his hips, arms, legs) to keep your opponent from advancing on you. This creates opportunities because he'll have to find a way inside, and he'll usually wind up exposing an arm for a kimura or armbar or triangle - you'll be able to see it coming. If you grab at your opponent's sleeves and his head with your hands, and keep your feet on him and your base always in front of him, he isn't going anywhere. You can create all sorts of opportunities for attacks too - you can push with your feet so he resists and pushes forward on you - keep a hold of one of his sleeves and suddenly release your feet from him so he comes diving into you - quick armbar right there. You can use similar movements to keep him constantly off balance and always guessing at your next move.
3) X Guard - this is basically a guard where your opponent is standing and you're trying to wrap up his leg. See Frank Mir vs. Brock Lesnar - he only had it for a second, but you see what it led to - a powerful sweep into a submission. You can wrap up his leg and pull him back down into almost any type of guard without suffering much damage. So even if someone is able to "escape" your open guard by standing up, he's really still in your open guard if you can wrap up his legs.
4) Rubber Guard - Do I need to say more? Being put into a good rubber guard just sucks (one leg high up on your back to keep your head down). It's like the guy you're rolling with has 3 arms to attack you with.
It's really the constant transitions from those 4 guards that are dangerous in regards to the open guard. If someone's just sitting there with one type of open guard, or even worse, the basic lay-on-your-back-with-feet-on-floor guard, it's super easy to pass. But when faced with someone using all 4 effectively, it's really, really hard to get away (until you inevitably get swept or submitted). Besides, nearly every submission from guard requires you to open the guard first - so when you're sitting in an open guard, you can pretty much be attacked at any time.
Just to be super clear - here's an example of how you would control someone with open guard.
Open my closed guard, try for a kimura. He grabs his own forearm to defend, but now he's close to me, so I hug his back to keep him from sitting up, shift my hips back just a smidge, maneuver hooks in and have thus applied the butterfly guard. I let go of his back, he tries to pass to the right. I grab his sleeves and constantly attack his base so he can't get enough momentum to explode away. I threaten a sweep to the left by lifting both legs but exploding with my right while simultaneously using my arms to turn his body towards that side, but he somehow escapes from both hooks and stands up (hey, things happen while grappling). I immediately wrap his leg at the knee with both my legs, and send him back to one knee and immediately grab at his gi. I pull him down using my body weight for assistance while shrimping my legs out to put him back in my open guard. He tries to stand back up, but I grab his head and a sleeve and pull him back down. He tries to push forward, so I stick my feet on his hips and push my hips back, creating a little bit of space and therefore using the spider guard. Now my feet are blocking his forward movement. He tries to push forward, I let go of my left foot and grab his right arm. Now he's off balance on his right side and both my feet are basically free, with my left foot already in transit. I just shift my hips, swing my feet over his head and go for an armbar. If I miss and his arm slips out, I switch out my left leg, keep my right leg high on his back and keep him down. There's the rubber guard. From here, whenever I feel like it, I can let him up a bit, slip in a shin and try for a gogoplata. Or, wait for him to plant an arm and go for a kimura. Or, shifting my leg from on his back to over his arm and trying for an omoplata.
I'm not good enough to do all that, but I know enough to know that similar things have been done to me. Of course the best strategy is to incorporate the closed guard too, so that you'll have a truly ultimate guard that no one will ever ever want to be caught in, but that's a different story. Well, I hope this super long treatise on the art of BJJ from a novice grappler has helped (I'm more of a stand-up fighter, but I'm good at figuring out strategies and how things work). Good luck in all your martial arts related endeavors!


















