[bloo]

how important are the essays in the application process?

thanks for your help :]

[ronmexico]

^The essays will never be as important as your LSAT and GPA. Only at the margins will they make any difference at all. One circumstance in which the essays might matter is if you've taken primarily math/science courses and they want to evaluate your writing ability more closely. Additionally, the optional essays (e.g. the "why Penn?" essay) can matter in that they demonstrate your interest in the school.

[~*sky84*~]

Wow these are some great tips, ronmexico, thanks!

Do you know what the average undergrad GPA is for students who attend a top 20 law school? I realize that this may all depend on LSAT scores, but generally speaking, what should people aim for?

Also, are there any Canadians at Columbia Law?

[ronmexico]

^The average undergrad GPA varies from school to school and even within schools. Some schools, like Boalt or UCLA, put a lot more emphasis on GPA than schools like Georgetown, for example. Overall, I would guess that at the top schools, it's about a 3.6 or so.

Yes, there are Canadians at Columbia Law. I know at least two of them.

[lakers]

i dont really have a question but a comment. i read "Entry into Columbia Law is one of the most competitive in the country and competition for the approximately 360 first-year (and ~45 transfer) spots is intense. For the class of 2008, 378 students matriculated from an applicant pool of 8020." u most be one very very intelligent person

[ronmexico]

^Not that I want to disagree with you , but in fairness, I should point out that while only 378 actually enrolled, at least 1000 were accepted.

[gemini]

Would you say it's true that it's recommended to attend law school in the region in which you want to practice eventually?

[ronmexico]

^Yes, beyond the top 14 or so schools, absolutely. The top 14 are the "national" schools that would give you a good chance to get a job anywhere. The specific US News rankings don't matter at all beyond the top 14, although you obviously still want to go to the highest ranked school in your region. So it would be silly to, for example, turn down Fordham for Iowa if you want to practice in NYC just because Iowa is ranked higher.

Of course, some non-t14 schools still place fairly well outside of their local market, but you might want to check the US News placement data and the NALP directory to see how many firms from the market you want recruit there and how many of their grads end up there.

Additionally, students who are in the very top of their class and on law review will have options all over the country no matter where they went, while lower-ranked students are generally limited to the local region. But it's very dangerous to assume that you're going to be one of the top few students at your school, so you shouldn't choose a law school in a region you wouldn't want to practice in.

[gemini]

Thanks for the speedy reply. What motivated you to go into Law? What field specifically are you looking to get into? Do you ever regret not pursuing a different field?

[ronmexico]

I don't have a really compelling reason for going to law school. Law pays well, it seems interesting enough and I figured that I would be able to hack it (this remains to be seen). I suppose I was always interested in the idea of being part of major multi-billion-dollar deals, so corporate law appeals to me. Which isn't to say that I might not discover that I really enjoy tax or litigation or something else once I actually find myself at a firm. I'm sending out about 80 resumes tomorrow morning, so hopefully I'll be working at a firm this summer (:fingers crossed:) and will have a better idea of what I want to do.

The only thing I seriously thought about other than law school was going to public policy school. I had some exposure to urban planning and public policy in college, although Carleton, being a liberal arts school, doesn't offer a major or many courses in policy. And it's not impossible that I may ultimately end up working for a government agency, but it probably won't be for a while.

[anhie]

how hard is it for a foreign student to get into Harvard Law School without paying heavy sum of fees?

[ronmexico]

^What fees are you talking about?

[mocchiatta]

Well, I attended a law school session at my school where I had a chance to meet the administrators. They pretty much broke down how students are selected during the application process, and the criteria was shocking.

1. Personal Essay - this reveals your purpose in applying and attending the particular institution, and it's the best way to convey who you are and what you hope to accomplish

2. Interview - someone associated with the institution gets a first hand experience of you as a person, so it's your best bet to add personality to the application

3. Resume - if you have the credentials and experience, they know that you're mature enough to choose the right path in the institution that would better help you reach your goals

4. LSAT score

5. GPA

Most of you probably think that LSATs and GPAs are everything. Well, most high ranking institutions realize that many students undergo cram schools to achieve top scores with LSATs and in many cases, some schools inflate GPAs, so they're not exactly accurate.

What the Yale administrator told me was that they look for a well written essay, an interesting interview, and a well-rounded resume. As long as the student has a 3.0 or higher, and a LSAT score of 155 or higher, then it's fine because the first three are what will make the student stand out.

[ronmexico]

^This is badly inaccurate. Your GPA and LSAT will be by far and away the most important factors in determining where you get in. With numbers much lower than the school's median, your chances will be astronomically bad. With a 3.0 and a 155, you would have substantially less than a 1% chance at any top school, let alone Yale. You could count on one hand the number of people with those numbers who've actually gotten into Yale in the past year.

Most schools don't even interview or, for that matter, require a resume (most students send one, though, and it's definitely a good idea). The only top schools that interview are Northwestern and Cornell, which only does so on a limited basis.

Your personal statement will never be more important than your LSAT or GPA unless it's either catasrophically bad or one of the best the adcom has ever seen. It can help borderline candidates who already have good enough numbers, but it's not going to make up for subpar numbers, except in a handful of exceptional cases.

[lakers]

do u know the future job trend for lawyers? say 10-15 years from now

[gemini]

I found this website useful: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm

Click on outlook for the "job trend".

[mocchiatta]

Perhaps LSATs and GPAs are the by and by the most important factors depending on your school.

Because the University of Chicago is well known for its hard curriculum, a lot of institutions give students leeway. Just as it is hard for students to get into medical schools with a 3.7, UofC students strive for just a 3.5. So perhaps it's the institution's name that matters just as much.

It's different to say that you graduated relatively well at the University of Chicago than it is to say that you graduated relatively well at a community college.

[ronmexico]

^This is true to a limited extent, but it's not going to make up for poor numbers. The actual GPA is going to be much more important than the school you got it from.

[mocchiatta]

Well, the GPA is important, but as long as you get a 3.0 or higher in a respected institution, I don't think the administrators will care. Because for them, they pretty much know that in your transcript, you have a hard courseload, good grades, etc. Now all you need really is a decent LSAT score to back it up. Once you have the decent scores, the administrators pretty much assume that you are a qualified student.

But does that make you a right fit for the institution? No, they need writing samples, recommendations, and resumes for experience. I don't know how to stress the fact that Yale, Columbia, and University of Chicago administrators were bringing up their criterias.

[ronmexico]

^Again, this is almost completely wrong. Admissions officers care a lot about your GPA. A 3.0 is not going to cut it at any top school. They don't care about "fit" very much at all. I don't know what these people were telling you, but this is not at all how law school admissions work.