[heyitzthatfc]

hey, my fc's miles are getting to the 13b and i was planning on swapping it with a jdm 13bt (or a 20b if i could find one, but most likely that's a no) sooner or later anyways, so i thought i would start early. does anyone have any general knowledge on edgine swapping for rotaries? and if they know any trusted websites the imports jdm engines? or maybe somewhere where they carry them in the bay area preferably near oakland. i generally know how to do the engine swap, but just incase i run into any problems i would like a real person to talk to that could help, instead of the DIY websites and stuff.

[azn akira]

hey, my fc's miles are getting to the 13b and i was planning on swapping it with a jdm 13bt (or a 20b if i could find one, but most likely that's a no) sooner or later anyways, so i thought i would start early. does anyone have any general knowledge on edgine swapping for rotaries? and if they know any trusted websites the imports jdm engines? or maybe somewhere where they carry them in the bay area preferably near oakland. i generally know how to do the engine swap, but just incase i run into any problems i would like a real person to talk to that could help, instead of the DIY websites and stuff.

if you are considering swapping in a 20b, then im guessing you havnt done any research. you are looking at at least $10k - 15k to do the whole swap right and get it running if you do just about everything yourself. do not get a jdm motor. those things are in crappy condition and are usually about a year or so away from death. just buy a rebuilt motor here. http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/ is pretty cheap. go to www.rotaryaviation.com to and you can buy step by step videos about how to pull the engine and install the engine in an fc

[heyitzthatfc]

i was never so serious about the 20b, but i have done the research, and im not saying im rich but by the end of the year i will have enough money for the 20b parts, for a 20b swap you would probably need around 10k excluding the engine though, so yeah you're right. but anyways, i was pratically always looking at the 13bt. and www.rotaryressurection.com does not install turbos on NA 13b's, and he only rebuilds, he doesnt sell and TIIs engines. i've taken my engine out many times just for fun so i dont really need the step by step videos, it's just that just incase i run into any problems i will have maybe in the near future, i could just PM someone on here. i was thinking about going to a japanese engine shop and see if they have any jdm t2 engines, of course, in good conditions (which will be personally checked by me and my friend) and low enough miles.

[azn akira]

i never said rotary ressurection swapped engines, im telling you buyings used jdm motors is a crap shot. just send your engine in and get it rebuilt like a TII engine from rotary resurection, maybe with a street port, then youll have a good running motor that will last you. or better yet just buy a blown 13bt and send it in to get rebuilt. then you just got to peice together the rest of the parts, turbos, wiring harness, drivetrain, etc. why are you asking on soompi anyways? just go to rx7club, no pistons, or club fc3s...

actually you can keep the n/a wiring harness

For simplicity, keep the n/a harness from the ECU to the engine. Only five pins/socket are different. Pins 1C, 1R, 1S, 2K, and 3D.

3D on the turboii is for the fuel pump resistor relay. You don't have one on your n/a and don't need one. So ignore it. Do nothing to it. On a n/a it's part of the inhibitor switch circuit. I left well enough alone. You have a constant 12v to your fuel pump on a n/a. That's just fine for the turbo also.

1C on the turboii is for the air bypass solenoid valve and on the n/a for the airbypass relay. Do nothing to it also. It's just used for cold start. And will effect nothing if left as is. Later if you want you can access the airbypass relay and pull that wire and splice a wire from there to the air bypass solenoid, if you really must.

1R..is for the knock sensor on the turboii and for P/S switch on the n/a. Cut that wire a couple of inches from the ECU plug and splice in you knock sensor controller. There's about three other wires for the knock box. One is a source of 12v, one for a ground and another for the wire that you would need to run to the knock sensor on the engine. Big deal. Only sissy boys have power steering anyway.

1S...port air solenoid valve....on both engines this just pulls in the port air solenoid if you have over 20,000 miles on the car determined by the mileage switch. I just left the Port Air plug disconnected. Simple is as simple does.

2K....on the turboii is for the twin scroll solenoid and on the n/a for the split air solenoid. So I just found the wire at the split air solenoid and disconnected it from the plug and spliced a wire to it to run over to the solenoid rack where the Green solenoid is for the twin scroll. Done.

[heyitzthatfc]

oh sorry the "just buy a rebuilt motor here. http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/ is pretty cheap" got me going there for a second. anyways, i already have a haltech e8 and im planning on making my own harness. having my engine rebuilt to a turbocharged one would bring a lot of stress from a turbo on the old engine. I decided to look for a low mileage 13bt from somewhere, but if I can't find one by the end of this month, i'll have to find some other way, I think i've been lucky already because my engine has never failed me yet at 171k miles.

[azn akira]

yeah the n/a rotaries will last a long time. scratch rebuilding your engine with tII rotors. you can do it, and it will work, but you need to custom fab some stuff. best bet is to get a blown 13bt and either rebuild it yourself or get it rebuilt (plus you can street port it at the same time). dont go with a used jdm motor, ive seen a couple blow within a year. plus for the most part the average japanese person doesnt take as very good care of their car (this is coming from my friend who is from japan and used to work at a gas/service station in japan). oil is pretty expensive in japan. so a lot of people dont change their oil very often and usually change the filter every other oil change. they usually dont keep their cars more than 100-160km anyways.

[heyitzthatfc]

good lookin out, i guess i'll start my search today.

[some-azn-guy]

if you're swapping a 13bt into your 13b chassis...you'll need a few things.

of course the engines are similar, but not entirely compatible with one another. the difference between series of engine determines what's required. reading through your posts, i see that you have a haltech and you're planning to make your own harness...so that being said, the ECU and wiring harness from the 13B-t isn't really required, given if you can get all the necessary plugs to fit the components on the engine.

if you want a 13b-t, i would say you should get one from an s5. of course i say this for several reasons, mainly because it starts off with 9.0:1 rotors which are actually lighter than the old 8.5:1 rotors found in the s4. the s5 on the other hand, uses an electrical MOP where-as the s4 has a mechanical MOP. the solenoids used by the engine are NOT interchangeable, so you can't use a BAC valve from an s4 on an s5 and vice-versa.

how do you tell the difference between an s4 and s5 without actually opening them up?
given if the engine isn't some sort of frankenstein piece-together unit like some i have seen, the water filler neck is a tell-tale sign as the s5 uses a black plastic one and the s4 uses an aluminium unit. TPS units on the throttle body are also tell-tale signs of what type of engine it is; the s4 has a narrow-band(1 part) sensor where-as the s5 uses a full-range(2 part) sensor.

the rotor housing themselves are a tell-tale sign as well...depending on where the engine originated from. take a look at the housings on the spark plug side. take a special note of what you see above the trailing spark plug hole, if you see a hole/casting for a knock sensor, it's an s5 housing. if you see nothing above that trailing plug hole, then it's an s4 housing. the knock sensor for the s4 engine is located on the rear iron in the vincinity of the part that attaches to the transmission. don't be too alarmed if you find a JDM engine and it's an s4 but looks like it has s5 housings. i could be wrong, but my guess would be that Mazda started using the s5-style housings prior to the actual introduction of the s5...it's sorta like how they mixed and matched their injectors after mid-1988. you know how the low-impedence has the orange coloured connectors and the high impedence uses the red connectors. my guess it's similar to that.

just remember, the flywheel/counterweight MUST match the series of the engine otherwise get ready for some seriously unbalanced engine action after you install it. basically means, S5 stays with S5 and S4 stays with S4. the counterbalance on the engine(in stock form) is integrated into the factory flywheel; however, if you're planning on using a lightweight aftermarket flywheel(which are basically universal for all 13B turbo; both the FC and FD) you MUST use an automatic counterweight for the corresponding series engine. you have to track down an automatic tranny FC from that series of engine and attach it to the e-shaft, then attach the lightweight flywheel, PP and clutch assembly on top of it.



my honest advice:
-if you plan on keeping the car for a long time, build a brand new engine using brand new parts(housings, rotors, stationary gears, apex seals...the whole shazzam!) it will cost you an arm and leg, but it'll last a while
-if you're gonna sell the car anytime soon...just get a 13b-t block and rebuild it, compression may be mediocre or not as good as brand new...but it should last for a while
-J spec generally just allows you to buy some time during a rebuild and such

[crashdummy]

www.rx7club.com

*SEARCH*

why dont you rebuild your motor yourself? i think every rotary owner should rebuild a motor at least once.

good learning experience. im not talking out of my ass either, ive been down that path.... if i were to do something with an rx7 again, i would probably drop in an ls1

[heyitzthatfc]

if you want a 13b-t, i would say you should get one from an s5. of course i say this for several reasons, mainly because it starts off with 9.0:1 rotors which are actually lighter than the old 8.5:1 rotors found in the s4. the s5 on the other hand, uses an electrical MOP where-as the s4 has a mechanical MOP. the solenoids used by the engine are NOT interchangeable, so you can't use a BAC valve from an s4 on an s5 and vice-versa.

how do you tell the difference between an s4 and s5 without actually opening them up?
given if the engine isn't some sort of frankenstein piece-together unit like some i have seen, the water filler neck is a tell-tale sign as the s5 uses a black plastic one and the s4 uses an aluminium unit. TPS units on the throttle body are also tell-tale signs of what type of engine it is; the s4 has a narrow-band(1 part) sensor where-as the s5 uses a full-range(2 part) sensor.

the rotor housing themselves are a tell-tale sign as well...depending on where the engine originated from. take a look at the housings on the spark plug side. take a special note of what you see above the trailing spark plug hole, if you see a hole/casting for a knock sensor, it's an s5 housing. if you see nothing above that trailing plug hole, then it's an s4 housing. the knock sensor for the s4 engine is located on the rear iron in the vincinity of the part that attaches to the transmission. don't be too alarmed if you find a JDM engine and it's an s4 but looks like it has s5 housings. i could be wrong, but my guess would be that Mazda started using the s5-style housings prior to the actual introduction of the s5...it's sorta like how they mixed and matched their injectors after mid-1988. you know how the low-impedence has the orange coloured connectors and the high impedence uses the red connectors. my guess it's similar to that.

just remember, the flywheel/counterweight MUST match the series of the engine otherwise get ready for some seriously unbalanced engine action after you install it. basically means, S5 stays with S5 and S4 stays with S4. the counterbalance on the engine(in stock form) is integrated into the factory flywheel; however, if you're planning on using a lightweight aftermarket flywheel(which are basically universal for all 13B turbo; both the FC and FD) you MUST use an automatic counterweight for the corresponding series engine. you have to track down an automatic tranny FC from that series of engine and attach it to the e-shaft, then attach the lightweight flywheel, PP and clutch assembly on top of it.

yeah it wouldnt make much sense for me to look for an s4 13bt when i have an s5, it's just better. thanks for the flywheel info.

www.rx7club.com

*SEARCH*

why dont you rebuild your motor yourself? i think every rotary owner should rebuild a motor at least once.

good learning experience. im not talking out of my ass either, ive been down that path.... if i were to do something with an rx7 again, i would probably drop in an ls1

i have rebuilt my motor for a street port with a friend at ricks rotary, but i've never really done it myself, and i think that was enough experience for me. also, i would never want to drop an ls1 in, because i driven one on my friends 7, and the ride for me was not as fun as having a rotary, but then again that was an FD.