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#2151 User is offline   HERMIT 

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Post icon  Posted 25 May 2008 - 09:45 PM

QUOTE (Krn_Track_Star @ May 25 2008, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
like i said i never said the chargers were a bad team i just believe they have ways to go.

You may not have said it but you sure implied it:
QUOTE
as for the chargers i dont think they will go far next year either because they have really been having problems with games they should of won. like last year started 0-4 and became hot at the right time. right now i think the teams in the afc to watch out for the pats, colts, and jags.

You totally discount the Chargers in the AFC race as if they are an afterthought and have gone on to base that assessment on mere intangible issues of leadership and them being too young of a team. I'm merely giving you counterarguments to that above quote to prove otherwise. The Chargers were a young team back in 2004 but four years and three playoff appearances later, those young players have gotten the pains of past playoff failures to build upon and hopefully springboard it into something better the upcoming year. The way the organization has gone about it is similar to the way the Colts and the Patriots have done it methodically over the years in their respective rise to dominance in the conference. The 2004 Chargers are somewhat like the 2001 Patriots in their learning curve into becoming a succesful franchise. Their "ways to go" period as you describe it is what I'm arguing as already being passed. While still a youthful team, they are not fresh-faced and playoff inexperienced and the general consensus is that these Charger players now are pretty much in their prime. As for the leadership issue, that point is pretty much moot. Rivers, Tomlinson, Gates, Merriman, Jammer, and Jamal Williams, among others, are their team leaders and whether you as an outside observer like them or not, the fact is that they are accepted within the team and there is no question or dissension about it. They've been fine with that and that's all that matters. And whether you claim that leadership in and of itself was a problem in the past, it sure didn't affect their relative success as their record over the past couple of seasons suggest. Having that kind of team talent does that for a team. Their losses in the last two playoff losses were not attributable to lack of leadership - the first was due to costly turnovers on their part that the Pats were able to capitalize on and the second was due to simply not having enough healthy bodies on hand to give New England their best.

Am I saying that the Chargers are the best team in the NFL and are the next Super Bowl champions? Hell no, I'm not saying that. But I am hopeful though based on the team progress and I'm encouraged what kind of team San Diego can look forward to. But to say they won't go far and not even mention them in the same breath as the Patriots, Colts, and the Jaguars as teams to watch out for in the AFC this upcoming year is a total slight, sounds misinformed, and is just a thinly veiled discredit to what progress the Chargers have accomplished in the past couple of seasons. Plain and simple, you just don't give them any credit (maybe you just don't even want to) with that above-quoted statement and it is from those comments upon which I've been basing my counterarguments.
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#2152 User is offline   Krn_Track_Star 

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 08:09 AM

and i based my arugement on that cuz they could of easily been 0-6 or even 0-10 like the dolphins were but have dey not dey didnt because they became hot at the right now know losing will knock them into a bigger whole they got their act stright together. i also can desribe teams that were just like the chargers and yet they couldnt make it over the hump but with in 5 years they won the super bowl dude to much more experience and more focus. T.B is a prime example of this. with tony dungy as their head coach they made it into the playoffs 4 stright years but on the 5th year with jon gruden dey won because they were hungry, they got that great leadership from the head coach and this is why i believe the chargers would be a hot team in the future. more losses in the playoffs means you get more hungry to win the big one. like i said i never said they were a horrible team but i dont think they are up their with the pats and colts the jags could be but we dont know yet. nobody knows yet because we havent started the season. ppl can think im hating on the chargers but i dont hate the chargers nor do i like them. i like watching games they have because u never know wen LT is gonna break lose but yeah the chargers will be great as their players become vets not as a young team.
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#2153 User is offline   GO!zilla 

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 11:17 AM

^actually tampa bay did a good amount of activities to FIX their offense.
also the league changed something that season. they made the NFC south division.
and before tony dungy, they had nothing.

also now you are comparing the talent level of Chargers to the DOLPHINS?
you serious?
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#2154 User is offline   HERMIT 

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 04:23 PM

QUOTE (Krn_Track_Star @ May 26 2008, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i also can desribe teams that were just like the chargers and yet they couldnt make it over the hump but with in 5 years they won the super bowl dude to much more experience and more focus. T.B is a prime example of this. with tony dungy as their head coach they made it into the playoffs 4 stright years but on the 5th year with jon gruden dey won because they were hungry, they got that great leadership from the head coach and this is why i believe the chargers would be a hot team in the future. more losses in the playoffs means you get more hungry to win the big one.

In your very own words above, you've basically reiterated the point I've been trying to make in my past posts. In the four years since 2004, the Chargers have been to the playoffs 3 times and have lost each time. Those players involved in each of those failed playoff campaigns are getting "hungry" as you describe. Yet, across those three playoff appearances, the one positive they could take out of them were that they've demonstrated improvement from one-and-outs to finally stepping it up and reaching the conference championship last year. Like your Buccaneer example above, San Diego is following along that very same success trajectory. To even further parallel your analogy, the Dungy-to-Gruden coaching change is even in line to the Schottenheimer-to-Turner coaching change in that each franchise moved from a successful regular season coach that couldn't get the team past the playoff hump to a coach that finally gets the team to the next level in advancing deeper into the playoffs then they ever could with the prior coach. What you are either failing to see or are refusing to admit is that this upcoming year is that proverbial 5th year for the Chargers and by even your own analogy above, they should be on par to being among the better teams in the league. Yet, regardless of whether you like or don't like the Chargers, you still hold firm in not acknowledging the Chargers as being one of the elite teams of the AFC now and instead continue to assert that the Chargers still "have a ways to go" and that it will be good in 5 years. So what, now you're saying that it'll take San Diego a total of 9 years to achieve ultimate success? Or maybe it's just your own subconscious rationalization as a means to justify not see the Chargers as a threat to the Patriots' dominance? In any event, I very much beg to differ. Those promising players that were on board in 2004 to begin this campaign of transforming the Chargers into a good team are not going to be around in 2012 (the 5 years from now estimate you give) - so I don't even understand what kind of reasoning you are working with in thinking San Diego will be good at that far-off time. You might want to recheck that logic. That comparison to the Dolphins is even laughable too. As kokopuff alluded to, the talent base is wholly different between these two teams and moreover, the circumstances - particularly in coaching regimes - were also different.
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#2155 User is offline   LolitaMan 

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Post icon  Posted 31 May 2008 - 08:29 PM

QUOTE (xsilentangel @ May 20 2008, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well obviously SOME PEOPLE (LolitaMan w/e) aren't over it.
"Belicheat" "Spygate"

That's all he talks about!
I don't think this subject will ever die down.

lol girl, it's facts so I can talk about it all I want. rolleyes.gif
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#2156 User is offline   xsilentangel 

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 06:05 AM

^
Girl?
Don't call me that.

Here we go again................ brought up by this kid AGAIN
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#2157 User is offline   LolitaMan 

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 08:11 AM

^ No kid here, NFL expert you're talking to here. Little girl needs to face the facts and leave as it is and stop whining when people bring out the truth. biggrin.gif
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#2158 User is offline   xsilentangel 

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 01:26 PM

Whining?
You're the one whining
"OMG Pats need harsh punishment"
Other than the topic of spygate, what do you even talk about? Nothing??
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#2159 User is offline   epark1281 

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 05:47 AM

...ms. silentangel doesn't seem so silent these days.
Sorry, but the idea that the NFL so casually destroyed evidence just doesn't sit well with me. This thing might have gone deeper, but we'll never know now, thanks to Goodell.
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#2160 User is offline   xsilentangel 

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 04:29 PM

It's not only you obviously. It doesn't sit well with far more....
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#2161 User is offline   Krn_Track_Star 

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 07:49 AM

tom brady promised that this year the patriots will be better than last year =). hope another undefeated season can happen =).
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#2162 User is offline   Unseen Choice 

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:04 AM

QUOTE (Krn_Track_Star @ Jun 10 2008, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
tom brady promised that this year the patriots will be better than last year =). hope another undefeated season can happen =).


Looking at the Pats schedule, I can see them going 16-0 again this year but the Chargers are getting dangerous in the AFC as serious contenders for the top. Pats pretty much kept the same roster on the offense side which is great and on the defensive side they're doing a lot of changes which is what we desperately needed for the last couple of years.
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#2163 User is offline   epark1281 

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:23 AM

we FINALLY got rid of Cedric Benson. Gosh, what a waste of a draft pick.
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#2164 User is offline   bhunji 

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 04:12 PM

First Ricky Williams and now Cedric Benson. I guess the only UT running back drafted in the first round that made an impact was Earl Campbell. Speaking of Earl Campbell, the best powerback the NFL has ever seen, I might as well compose a list of the top 5 NFL running backs. The offseason is boring as it is...

1. Jim Brown: Granted I haven't watched much film on him but when Jim Brown is placed at the number one spot in just about every list of great players, it's hard not to place him at the top of my own list. As far as stats goes, Jim Brown was phenomenal. In 1958, Jim Brown ran for 1527 yards and 17 touchdowns and averaged 5.9 yards per carry. He did all that in just 12 games, which was how many games the regular season had at that time. Also, according to ESPN, Jim Brown scored once every 20.7 times he touched the ball and averaged 104.3 yards per game.

2. Walter Payton: Known by many as "Sweetness", Don Shula calls him, "The most complete back ever." Walter Payton was running, receiving, throwing, and blocking before LaDainian Tomlinson was even born. By the end of his career, he was the rushing yards leader with 16,726 yards. He was without doubt a physical runner who patented the "Scissor Kick" to make up for his lack of blazing speed.

3. Emmitt Smith: Owner of the current NFL career rushing yards records with 18,355 yards. Perhaps the most consistent running back in the history of the NFL, Emmitt Smith ran at least 1,000 yards in 11 consecutive seasons. His 175 total touchdowns is second only to Jerry Rice and both are the only non-kickers to score 1,000 points in a career. Much like Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith was great at running, receiving, and blocking. In terms of heart and passion, Emmitt Smith had no peer as he ran for 168 yards with a separated right shoulder, 41 of which came from the game winning drive against the New York Giants in 1993. If I'm not mistaken, this win won the Cowboys a playoff spot. Although Emmitt Smith did run behind one of the greatest offensive lines in NFL history, he was fully capable of pounding the ball in with his physical north-south running style.

4. Barry Sanders: The human highlight reel and the most elusive back the NFL has ever seen; his runs were just ridiculous. In 1997, he ran for 2,053 yards and 11 touchdowns and averaged 6.1 yards per carry. If I'm not mistaken, he is also the only running back who ran for at least 1500 yards in four consecutive seasons. He had a legitimate chance at breaking rushing record held by Walter Payton but retired after the 1998 season with 15,269 yards. However, despite Barry Sander's great runs and yards gained, he also has the most negative rushing yards. According to the SI Book of Football, he had 336 carries for -952 yards. I would also like to mention that although many people believe that Barry Sanders had a horrible run blocking offensive line, it definitely wasn't easy for an offensive line to block for Barry Sanders' running style.

5. Earl Campbell: The one man wrecking crew and the best powerback in the history of the NFL. In his rookie season he ran for 1,450 yards and 13 touchdowns and averaged 4.8 yards per carry. The following two season he ran for 1,697 yards and 19 touchdowns and 1,934 yards and 13 touchdowns respectively.Within his relatively short NFL career, Earl Campbell powered through gangtackles like no other. His physical style combined with frequent carries cut his career short by several years. Supposedly, he currently has trouble moving around due to the punishing hits he endured during his career.

Honorable mentions (in no particular order): Gale Sayers, OJ Simpson, Marshall Faulk, Eric Dickerson, Tony Dorsett

Anybody else want to post their list?
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#2165 User is offline   Krn_Track_Star 

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 04:19 PM

QUOTE (Unseen Choice @ Jun 10 2008, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Looking at the Pats schedule, I can see them going 16-0 again this year but the Chargers are getting dangerous in the AFC as serious contenders for the top. Pats pretty much kept the same roster on the offense side which is great and on the defensive side they're doing a lot of changes which is what we desperately needed for the last couple of years.


i hope the pats go 16-0 again but this time win the big one

oh michael strahan went out on top. im soo glad for him he worked his ass off. =).
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#2166 User is offline   Unseen Choice 

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 05:00 PM

QUOTE (Krn_Track_Star @ Jun 10 2008, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i hope the pats go 16-0 again but this time win the big one

oh michael strahan went out on top. im soo glad for him he worked his ass off. =).


Truth, Strahan is one of those guys that deserve a ring because he really loves the game. All is left now is to get Junior Seau a ring and I'll be happy
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#2167 User is offline   Viet_teKniks 

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 07:44 AM

i cant see the pansy pats going "all the way" or "16-0"...you know whos going to win the superbowl .....Them COWBOYS...yep i said it i call it...record going to be 14-2

reasons: Offense led by Romo, T.O, Barber III, F. Jones, J. Witten, P. Crayton, Martellus Bennett
Defense led by Ware, Newman, Ellis, Pac-Attack, Henry, Roy Williams, Jenkins, Bradie james, zach thomas, chris canty

DALLAS COWBOYS THE MOST SUPERIOR TEAM OF THEM ALL
 

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#2168 User is offline   epark1281 

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 10:39 AM

QUOTE (Viet_teKniks @ Jun 16 2008, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i cant see the pansy pats going "all the way" or "16-0"...you know whos going to win the superbowl .....Them COWBOYS...yep i said it i call it...record going to be 14-2

reasons: Offense led by Romo, T.O, Barber III, F. Jones, J. Witten, P. Crayton, Martellus Bennett
Defense led by Ware, Newman, Ellis, Pac-Attack, Henry, Roy Williams, Jenkins, Bradie james, zach thomas, chris canty

DALLAS COWBOYS THE MOST SUPERIOR TEAM OF THEM ALL

I can believe in the offense, but you'll be lucky if Pac-Man plays more than 6 games before he get's arrested for something else. Roy Williams is sad and old, and he only knows how to get penalized for horse-collar tackles. All your other boy's are just John Doe's with the exception of DeMarcus Ware. Ware is a beast.
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#2169 User is offline   Krn_Track_Star 

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 02:01 PM

QUOTE (Viet_teKniks @ Jun 16 2008, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i cant see the pansy pats going "all the way" or "16-0"...you know whos going to win the superbowl .....Them COWBOYS...yep i said it i call it...record going to be 14-2

reasons: Offense led by Romo, T.O, Barber III, F. Jones, J. Witten, P. Crayton, Martellus Bennett
Defense led by Ware, Newman, Ellis, Pac-Attack, Henry, Roy Williams, Jenkins, Bradie james, zach thomas, chris canty

DALLAS COWBOYS THE MOST SUPERIOR TEAM OF THEM ALL


lolz i live in dallas but i hate the cowboys. =) im from boston n love the pats first football i seen play =).


as for cowboys winning the super bowl is a joke. ROMO the master of choking in clutch situtation hasnt won a playoff game. T.O got no hands drops easy passes that can be like 20 to 30 yrd gains. barber cant carry the load because of his style bound to get hurt playing like that P. Crayton complains and gives up on plays if he doesnt get the ball just like the giants game in the playoffs.


cowboys at best next season 10-5. they might make it into the playoffs as a wild card.
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#2170 User is offline   Viet_teKniks 

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 06:44 AM

man u guys have to be kidding me 10-5...are u serious
cowboys do not have "john does"
Ellis-Comeback player of the year 07-08
pac-gonna be starting cb
newman-starting cb and pro bowler
henry-6 int last yr couldve been more if he were not hurt
ware-hes a beast
roy-coverage problems one of top 5 ss
zach thomas- coming off major concussion prob last year..inside threat
bradie james-leading tackles leader last 2 yrs i think

Offense-
romo-true not master of the clutch but i think 2 seasons as a starter shall erase that
t.o- most consitent wr ...and he barely dropped passes last yr
glenn- most likely not to be a cowboy according to espn.com
crayton-can contribute to be best 3rd wr behind t.o and witten...not considering glenns return
barber-hes a beast...sure very physical guy but no doubts

and cowboys are gonna be the no 1 seed as last year
 

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