[BishieAddict]

I'm doing a research paper on private vs. public health care...I don't live in the States so I don't know how it is really there. Is it really that bad?

What I've found is that in the US, even though has private healthcare, spends more on healthcare than the countries that have public healthcare:

The US, with the largest for-profit health sector of all industrialized countries, spends over 50% more per person on health care than Canada.

http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2005/02...e-part-one.html
For a country that has private healthcare, I thought it would spend less.
Americans

loses around 25% of its healthcare dollars to administration

and

In 2004, about one in 20 Americans reported that costs prevented them from obtaining needed care.

Today, over half the family bankruptcies filed every year in the United States are directly related to medical expenses

So what I'm wondering is quality of health care a big concern for you guys?

[mz simmonz]

Quality of healthcare is a huge concern for me, and up until a few months ago I did not have health insurance so every doctor visit came out of my parents' pocket and U.S. healthcare is expensive. My brother and I both needed braces and other dental work (although very few insuraces cover dental fees anyway), always got really sick in the winter, had severe alllergies in the spring, etc so had to see doctors several times a year and it got pricey along with paying for precriptions. Recently I signed myself up for health insurance on my own and I'm so glad I don't have to pay for any of my doctor's visits and most of my medicine is covered.

I'm not 100% sure what's private and what's public healthcare but I'm assuming private is out of pocket and high copays while public is like free health clinics or providers that accept Medicaid and such? Well if that's correct, then I must say though, private healthcare as a whole is better than public with the exception of the cost of course. I mean I lucked out with one specialist and got a really high-end dermatologist but it took forever to get an appointment with her. Thats the thing, usually public healthcare has a huuuuuuuuge waiting list so it's hard to get an appointment, and when you actually get to the office, there are tons of patients there. I noticed when I worked for doctors in the past that the ones who accept the least types of insurance, had emptier offices, and they were usually in nicer hospitals and offices in better neighborhoods. In terms of the actual healthcare, it's a hit or miss for me. Some of my providers are extremely warm and informative and some speak to you like they want you out of their office ASAP, but the good thing is, you can always switch doctors at any time for any reason. The bad news? it takes forever to speak to a representative because so many people are calling. I have HealthFirst, by the way. My dad used to be covered under BlueCross BlueShield and he had a wider range of healthcare specialists he could choose from (but he had copays with some doctors) where as my choices were very limited.

[BishieAddict]

O_O that sounds scary and pricey... thanks for the reply.

Oh sorry.. I didn't define public health care. In countries like Canada, the government provides "free" healthcare. We don't have to pay to visit the doctors, stay at the hospital, or have surgery done... well most of the cost is covered. extra "frills" like ambulance, braces and dental care we have to pay for.

whereas in the states. which is for the most part, private, I think you guys have to pay for everything or buy insurance to pay for everything.

Private spending is what we pay for health care, either through insurance or directly with our own money.
Public spending for health care comes from tax dollars that federal, state, and local governments use to pay for programs like Medicare and Medicaid.

http://www.ufcw.org/ufcw_4_healthcare/heal...facts/index.cfm

Yeah the main concern for public healthcare is the long waiting list.. that's why some governments (in canada) are pushing for privatization or two tier healthcare system, where the wealthy can bypass the waiting list and get surgery done at their own expense at a privatively owned facility.

[Tamago86]

Oh sorry.. I didn't define public health care. In countries like Canada, the government provides "free" healthcare. We don't have to pay to visit the doctors, stay at the hospital, or have surgery done... well most of the cost is covered. extra "frills" like ambulance, braces and dental care we have to pay for.

whereas in the states. which is for the most part, private, I think you guys have to pay for everything or buy insurance to pay for everything.

The thing is you guys really have to pay out the booty for that in taxes. It's not exactly free. It's free if you're someone who is not paying taxes, the system works because the majority of people don't go in for regular checkups, but still pay money for it anyways through taxes. So you do benefit it from it if you are someone poor, or someone who goes for checkups at very regular intervals, ie 'get your money worth'. I doubt this would ever sit well in America, because there's a very large 'I earned it he didn't' attitude here, and people would most likely consider it 'leeching' or wasting 'our hard earned money'. There have also been movements recently to lessen or get rid of welfare altogether

Despite that I'd actually prefer a sytem like Canada's, or Northern Europe's, where healthcare is free and everyone pays for it in taxes. It's a more humane system, people shouldn't be dying because they can't afford to pay crazy hospital bills, families should not be going bankrupt because they're trying to keep a member of their family alive. There is a problem with waitlists in countries that use this system, and efficiency, but that's a minor problem in the large scope of things, especially compared to the statistics you mentioned

[BishieAddict]

^ true another reason why people don't like public healthcare... but in the long run, the US government ends up spending more than the Canadian gov't

The US, with the largest for-profit health sector of all industrialized countries, spends over 50% more per person on health care than Canada.

http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2005/02...e-part-one.html

United States would save over $161 billion every year in paperwork alone if it switched to a singlepayer system like Canada's

http://solutions.synearth.net/2006/11/06
I find that strange.. but you guys support the poor, elderly and disabled. And services are more expensive there than in here.

haha i don't go for regular checkups cuz i'm lazy (lol i hadn't gone for one in 5 years...yeah i know that's not good) ... i don't even visit the doctors because I don't have time, when I know i just have a common cold. ... I actually never thought about going to the doctor's to get my "money's worth". .. I guess I take them for granted. How much does it cost to visit a doctor for a check up there?

[chriquen]

i'm in the middle on this one. i've waited in a emergency room before (harlem, for a job shadow) and it was really sad to see people waiting there (a staff member told me sometimes for an entire morning). most of them were things most people would see a primary care for (babies with ear infections, bad colds, aids patient in for a checkup). somehow i think if healthcare becomes public this wouldn't be an issue. and insurance companies suck, especially hmo's. back when i was on a school insurance, they'd try to do some tricky things with billing and my mom always had to sort things out. and having worked at a clinic before, some insurance companies are really picky about what's covered and not, and you can spend a whole hour trying to justify your patient's needs.

on the other hand, i personally don't trust people. some people are chronic hypochondriacs (i've talked to a few while working at the same clinic). some people don't take care of themselves through diet and exercise, and when they actually get sick, rely on doctor visits and tons of rx's. like tamago said, it seems that inevitably honest people will get ripped off, while abusers mooch off them. and i admit that i am one of those people that would feel like i'm being ripped off.

perhaps a compromise would work best. healthcare needs like emergencies and life-and-death situations (or close to it) would be free for everyone. (because i don't envision anyone trying to take advantage of heart surgery or chemotherapy). whereas, cosmetic dermatology and the like would be out of pocket. i don't know though, just an idea.

this is actually really relevant for me now because in less than a year i'll be 23 and no longer covered by my parents insurance. in addition, my mom's work gets pretty decent insurance coverage, but we're stuck with paying our own crappy insurance (doesn't cover doctor's visits or rx's AT ALL!) because her's would not cover me or my brother.


gosh a 25% loss is ridiculous though. is this the same with other countries or are we just super inefficient?


edit: a doctor's visit costs varies between doctors and specialties. my dermatologist right now charges 140-200 for first time visits. the clinic i worked at was a sports med one, and the doctors were really known in thier field, charging 220-350.

[BishieAddict]

*jaw drops...
$140 for a dermatologist?..... $220?!
I was a sick kid... i would have costed my parents so much money if I lived in the states.

gosh a 25% loss is ridiculous though. is this the same with other countries or are we just super inefficient?
edit: a doctor's visit costs varies between doctors and specialties. my dermatologist right now charges 140-200 for first time visits. the clinic i worked at was a sports med one, and the doctors were really known in thier field, charging 220-350.

I only have the numbers for UK. it's 11% there.

In Canada, cosmetic surgery isn't covered. Eye check ups aren't either. nor are braces (mine costed my parent`$3000CD um.. 2500 US? i really don't remember it was over 1000 though.. how much is it there?)... abusing the system... I don't really see it an issue here (canada). People don't really go for check ups just because it's free (you have to wait to see a doctor.. and it's not always possible.. and it's time consuming) But I could just be a naive/blind person. Obesity is a problem here too... smoking too <- but we have these huge taxes on liquor and cigarettes that might help stop ppl from being an addict. haha i don't know if that even helps.

what is rx?

[chriquen]

(rx = prescription)

heh, americans are twice as inefficient. that's really sad now.. sometimes i think the problems we have are due to the fact that we're americans..

i didn't realize obesity was a problem in canada too. the couple of times i did venture up there it seemed like everyone was relatively fit. maybe it was just that area though. anyway, the obesity issue is one thing in particular that worries me. not just straight up obesity, but all the illnesses that go with it (heart issues, diabetes, etc). and with the number of obese americans these days, a free healthcare system would be uber expensive on taxpayers. i can imagine obese persons that are too heavy to exercise without risking cardiac failure and public healthcare forced to pay for thier gastric bypasses. and i'm pretty sure that moderately obese people would not suddenly change thier lifestyle when free healthcare arrives. which then leaves the government in an ultimatim between paying for thier medications for obesity related illnesses, or paying for preventative measures (like better nutritional education).

lol, maybe i'm thinking too far into this.

to tell you the truth, what hurts (financially) the most isn't the doctor visits (because ocassionally my mom will bargain those, haha). for me, at least, it's the medications i then have to pay. recently my mom paid 400 USD for my medications. one stupid bottle of shampoo cost 160 because there wasn't a generic version. =0(

[BishieAddict]

Yeah obesity is a concern.. Americans and Canadians have similar lifestyles... but.. there are differences. (sort of getting off topic. we don't have supersize fries at MacDonald's). Now the government's making the students...forgot which grade (i think it's gr. 1-9).... to be active for i think 30 mins 3* each week at school.

$400 for medication O_O..... wow no wonder people were buying them online.....there were some issues before (i don' tknow if there still is) about a canadian company selling their stuff online at canadian prices... yup..

But our government subsidizes some of the costs of the drugs.. it's covered with our taxes, hence we have higher taxes than you guys... Some things are covered, some aren't. I think the most I paid was $40 for prescription drugs. I don't know cuz my parent's paid for them.

[zyrah]

canada has the best healthcare in the whole wide world...no doubt, sorry im off topic!

[liltweekstar]

This isn't going to be as helpful but I just wanted to say that it all depends on the doctors. I see enough lazy doctors right now with private care as I did with public. The only difference is that I pay more. There is this one doctor my dad was sent to but his health insurance doesn't have a contract with that certain hospital so every treatment he would get has to be paid out of his own pocket. So it depends on insurance as well. My dad is a heart patient and they always wait for patients to have something ..."dramatic" happen to them first before performing surgeries in most cases. It's really upsetting.